Why a can light in today's environment?

[rsanders]

So - what if someone made a goodman handle by which you could mount a hand-held?

I'm thinking the huge strides in battery output and the LED development will make an impact on the can light industry.

I think you'd have a hard time making a goodman handle that cost less than the LED light it's holding.

The can light guys are just putting LEDs in their light heads. My personal willingness to shell out $1500 for a light when something almost as bright and long-running costs 1/10th of that is definitely dropping, though.

 

[Doc Harry]

The switch on the Ultranova needs to be better protected to prevent accidental switching on. If it weren't for the switch, I would have bought one.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know about the specific light you mentioned, but I've seen some very bright hand-held LED lights. However, the spot is SMALL. Power is power, and there is no getting around the fact that a bright light that covers significant area is going to draw a lot, LED or not. If you want something that will illuminate a room, you need more than the small focus of a backup-sized light.

I have seen a hand-held 10W HID that was pretty nice, but the amount of battery for that kind of light that you can hold on your hand is small, so the burn time is short. For cavern dives, yeah. For the 2 to 3 hour cave dives I'm doing these days, not so much.

If all you are doing is the typical one hour recreational salt water dive, there are a lot of light options that will work, most of them much less expensive than the high-end canisters. If you are doing wreck dives or cave dives, you are still best served with a canister light.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

We are having this discussion in advanced scuba, which technically (no pun intended) means we should not discuss the use of lights for technical or cave environments

That said, can lights have many advantages.

First, which are actually more efficient, HID or LED? watt for watt, HID's seem to put out more light. I don't honestly know the answer to this question, can someone else much smarter than I chime in?

Secondly, technical diving tends to place a high value on the hands free nature of a goodman handle. I see very few benefits to having to use my hand to hold a light when I could use a goodman handle to do the same.

Third, light socks are not the same as a hard goodman handle. They not only feel awkward compared to the bliss of a hard goodman handle, but they make it harder to switch quickly from hand to hand and the lack of a cord makes it impossible to hang around my neck

Fourth, is there any problem with can lights? I find the ability to have larger amounts of battery stored in a more convenient location which can also hold things like car keys or money to be handy.

Lastly, I don't see how the long length needed to hold the light and batteries, will fit comfortably on the back of your hand. Can lights only need a few inches of product on your hand, placing the bulk of the weight on your waist. Seems to me that this puts less weight on your hand.

In the future, when the entire light and 10amp hour battery pack can fit into a canister the size of my 12w led can light head, then I can see the vast majority switching. I think we have a few more years of can lights ruling the day in cave diving before that happens, though. There is always a great idea coming to replace the current standards, and that great idea is probably LED's that require no ballast and less space for the light emitter compared to HID's, and batteries with incredibly higher power density, allowing for the same or more lumens and burn time in a much smaller package. We are seeing that happening slowly, but it's not to the point yet that I would declare the can light to be dead

 

[PfcAJ]

I like a cannister light because if I drop the lighthead underwater, its only going as far as the cord will reach (in addition to the other reasons listed above).

 

[gcbryan]

IMO many of the benefits claimed for cannister lights aren't/don't need to be exclusive to cannister lights. In other cases cannister lights are simply used where they aren't necessary. If you already have one and want to use it that's another matter.

In the 10 W HID range LED competes well including power consumption. In the 21 W HID and up range HID is more efficient still. There is no reason that a good Goodman handle couldn't be fashioned for a hand held LED and there are high quality hand held LED dive lights (MB SUB for instance) so it's not necessary to compare a Light Monkey cannister light with a hand held LED from Hong Kong.

It's also not a fair comparison to consider that all LED hand helds are like most of the LED hand held backup lights being discussed here. Lights using one Cree XR-E chip are typically the lights being described here as narrow beam backup lights. Using a Cree MC-E for instance can be more or less equivalent to a 10 W HID.

If you want 2 hour burn time and the same lumen and lux output of a 10 W HID you can get that in a hand held. It will be a little longer in length than most cannister light heads but not much since all you need to power this is (2) lithium ion rechargeable batteries not much larger than an AA sized cell. You could design a light with the batteries side by side and it wouldn't be any longer than most current light heads for that matter.

If you want output similar to a 21 W HID and at least 2 hour burn time it would be bulky to carry the batteries on the back of you hand. If you need that output and 4 hours burn time then you certainly (presently) need a cannister (or a very large hand held). Therefore, for caves, wrecks it seems the cannister will be here for a while.

After you get above 10 W HID range LED's generally aren't going to "throw" or penetrate as well. This is simply because the surface brightness of the brightest (Lux value) LED currently made is roughly equivalent to that of the 10 HID. The lumen values or output of 21 W HID can be matched by LED technology but the lux values cannot currently so they don't throw or penetrate as far. Two lights may appear to be just as bright in turms of lumen output but the LED has a uniform output. The HID has a brighter small spot in the center of the hotspot. This provides the penetrating that the LED's of today can't match. This isn't necessary for many diving situations however so it just all depends on your diving. It isn't as simple as HID's being required for murky conditions however. They're not necessarily always required.

For OW dives even in murky conditions it is a good choice (hand held LED) for many people (including me).

 

[D_B]

Me? I know I don't have the dives, or experience with cannister lights so I wonder why I posted here :shrug: ... but I'm very interested in this topic


I would still want the cannister for a light, for the added benefits already described

My understanding is that Right Now, for a 21w HID equivalent light (power-burn time-throw) you are looking at a HID bulb and cannister , this is changing, batteries and LED's are getting better and I think it will not be long till an LED/cannister could be the choice for that power/brightness , much like they have for a 10w HID

I would/will get a cannister light at some point, I cant see any real disadvantage to having one, it is needed for some types of diving and I think I may end up going that way .. and from my reading of how bright of one is needed it will have the power of a 21w HID ... whether that means an actual HID or not may change by that time

 

[Randy g]

Im with DB on this. I will get a Can light eventually but for now I am starting to head down the tech road and starting to acquire gear for that style of diving.

Heres my answer to the Cree with my DYI goodman handle.

 

[Jax]

I'm not familiar with the particular light you're asking about, but I've seen some goodman handles that would adapt themselves well with a little DIY effort to a hand held style light.

One thing I really like about a can light is the fact that you can drape the cord over your neck and let the head hang down if you ever need both hands to deal with something. That's difficult to do with a hand held.

While I am using the UltraNova as an example, I'm not promoting any light particularly. I'm just seeing the technology getting way better.

 

[Jax]

Im with DB on this. I will get a Can light eventually but for now I am starting to head down the tech road and starting to acquire gear for that style of diving.

Heres my answer to the Cree with my DYI goodman handle.

Since I don't have a can light, the SCC P7 (same as the Cree MC) was my primary. Until Edd took me in the back room and showed me the UltraNova & P7 side-by-side.

Interesting comments on the can acting as a weight, and the cords, and the hose retainer. I'd like to take some of these cans and handhelds into a murky lake . . .