Whose fault is it when an accident happens?

[Zephrant]

Many years ago my friend and diving buddy was on his AOW deep certification dive (I was not in that class). One of the three students ran out of air on the bottom, and the instructor and assistant got him an octo, and then the group started up. They lost track of my friend, and he was found face down on the surface when they completed their safety stop. He was unrevivable.

I know my friend messed up somehow- held his breath on an emergency ascent after running out of air I suspect, but I've always blamed the instructor a little. Yeah it was OW certified divers, yeah they are responsible for their own air, and yeah he drilled in to us "never hold your breath".... But it was in a class situation (first deep dive for them) where two out of three students ran out of air. To me that means poor planning, with fatal consequences.

The string of unbroken errors is a good analogy- many individual steps where that accident could have been avoided.

Zeph

 

[AbyssalPlains]

Blame and fault are two different things, blame implies failure, not necessarily culpability as fault does.

An instructor can be blamed (by others) for turning out a bad diver, but he may not be at fault for a specific accident made by said bad diver.

BUT, when a diver has an "accident" under direct supervision of an instructor - well, the instructor will be blamed, and most likely held at fault.

Interesting... Just an observation: This whole question seems to relate very much to the "sue-happy" American law system. Reading this post, I realized that, apparently, in English there appear to be three different words (blame, culpability, fault) for a concept for which to my knowledge there is only one word in my native German. I would not know the differences between those three if there are any.

 

[Abbo]

Interesting... Just an observation: This whole question seems to relate very much to the "sue-happy" American law system. Reading this post, I realized that, apparently, in English there appear to be three different words (blame, culpability, fault) for a concept for which to my knowledge there is only one word in my native German. I would not know the differences between those three if there are any.

The word fault can have a legal meaning or a moral meaning. To me, a legal case is always something of a casino even when the facts of a case are pretty clear. I don't think I am without fault, so I won't throw the first stone in a moral or ethical debate. When it comes to getting yourself home alive, however, my views are clear and forthright: behave as if everything is your own responsibility and you will have a better chance of coming home alive. Don't do "trust me" dives, where you depend on your buddy or instructor to keep you alive. Don't follow a guide into a wreck or cave without knowing the way out. Your gas planning should NOT depend on your buddy bailing you out. Plan and train for equipment to fail: one day it will. If the equipment fails and you didn't prepare for that eventuality, it's not an act of God but an act of omission on YOUR part. You mentioned DCI: even if you carry a computer and a back-up computer and tables too, and stay well within the limits, you can still have an "unearned" DCI hit (PFOs come to mind). Know where the nearest chamber is and whether your boat has oxygen, and don't assume that just because the boat has it that it knows how to use it. Treat everyone politely as if you trust them implicitly - but don't. Just don't. And from a legal point of view, never say "my fault" - they're the next most expensive words after "I do".

 

[TheWetRookie]

I am sick of people wanting to blame just about anyone BUT themselves when things go wrong.

I agree 100%, but it's still was not my fault

If there is blame to share due to the actions of another individual then so be it, otherwise take it like a man or woman and accept responsibility for your own action. There are also times when no one is to blame.

Did your bent diver get enough sleep before the dive, eat enough, drink enough? And I am sure there is a whole host of other questions that could be asked regarding how or why the diver got bent.

Why blame the quarry or anyone else? Oh I forgot, as already mentioned, we live in a "sue-happy" "blame-happy" day and age.

 

[stevewirl]

Not enough info .

i would like to think that if an accident happens that the primary concern is to aid in the victims recovery .

over the years i have seen many incidents and accidents . and the only time that i have seen blame is when a boat ofran out of fule and the divers picked up by a chopper had to leave their gear behind .

i hav been bent , and it was my fault , but the training i and the other divers with me recieved saved me form deteriating even futher .

 

[tedtim]

In my experience, rarely have I seen an accident, or the results of an accident to which a single cause can be attributed. There may have been a precipitating event, but there is a sequence of events, or non-events (things that should have been done but were not), that lead to the particular point in time when the accident occurs.

As for assigning blame, I leave that to insurance companies and lawyers. We tend to focus too much on blame and not on prevention.

 

[scarefaceDM]

In this day and age we WAIT to have an accident to then find a solution to avoid the next one. When in fact you can avoid many accidents by propre training. However even if you have the right training. Fault or blame can creep up on you because of the other guy. In a buddy team practice practice practice skills to avoid accidents. In a buddy team or any buddy configuration..self preservation is the norm.

In a diving related accident. balme is quick to find the other guy and not the victim. Until a detailed report is written and all the facts are in. Society is QUICK to point the finger at someone else.

Most of the time diver related accidents are one DIVERS fault. Lack of training, physical fitness, mental fitness, awareness , faulty gear and the diving beyond capabilities all fall to one person...the single diver. And the most common diver stupidity. Harsh but true. And pier pressure.

Search the forum and you will find some diver related injury or death was caused by stupidity of there own.

There are cases of the OTHER guy. Leaving divers stranded in open waters, renting out poorly serviced gear, BAD air etc..

But whom wants to blame themselves when it is easy to point the finger elsewhere.

Safe dives folks.
Stephen

 

[RonFrank]

I know my friend messed up somehow- held his breath on an emergency ascent after running out of air I suspect, but I've always blamed the instructor a little.
Zeph

Sorry for the loss. However once OW certified it's up to the diver, NOT the instructor to monitor air. There was no reason not to dive as buddy teams. There was no reason not to thumb the dive at a preset PSI, which I'm betting was discussed prior to the dive.

This scenario makes a good point. Once certified, do NOT be lulled into a false sense of security because you are diving with an instructor, or DM. We as divers are responsible for our diving... period.

Sounds like two divers ignored their PSI, and their training in this incident, and there was little the Instructor could do once occupied with one OOA diver to help the rest of the group.

 

[stevewirl]

i agree wit tedtim ,

it is usually a sequence of events or non events .

for instance 95% of deceased divers that i have had to recover always had a weight belt on and no air .
free ascents from aow depth will get the victim to the surface ifthey hav run out of air . this is why a buddy system and finishing a dive with 50 bar is advised

although the instructor where on the dives with the aow class the option to end a dive is there for every1 .

iv often been due to go to 60 or 70 meters and opted to end a dive due to what ever reason . never ever be afraid to end a dive .

 

[tedtim]

The TOS for this particular forum ask us to look at accidents from the perspective of finding lessons that we can apply to our own diving. IMO, focusing on blame, how to determine who is to blame, or otherwise how to assign blame is not productive.

There are those that equate cause with blame. So be it. I don't see it that way.