Who "Fails" Open Water Scuba Certification and why

[Jackie Treehorn]

You act like OW should be guaranteed. That's wrong and dangerous. An OW card means that an instructor has certified that the diver meets a set of requirements that the certifying agency has determined are necessary for a safe, independent dive.

I agree with this 100%.

Refusing to pass someone who does not meet the standards is a sign of integrity and concern for the well-being of the student and other divers, not "elitism". And some of those standards are strictly quantitative, no judgement required. Notably the swim test.

But you are not refusing to pass. You are just not checking off that they have been able to complete that skill according to agency standards. It's a subtle, yet important difference. And for the brand new future diver... can be intimidating. Instruction is not tearing down another person, it should be to bring them up. Reading instructors making comments of how poorly students perform, or count their "fails" as a point of pride simply irks me.

It's amazing that so many people still don't understand the concept of mastery learning, the theory upon which nearly all modern scuba instruction is based. In traditional education, you teach someone for a certain period of time, assess the progress, and give a grade indicating the student's performance in comparison to a standard. In mastery learning, you teach someone for however long it takes for them to meet that standard. It is literally the instructor's job to identify the problems a student is having and intervene in whatever way is necessary to bring that student to success.

This encompasses everything that I find right in good instructors. I couldn't have said it better myself. The good instructors put in the time with the students, take ownership in the instructor/student social contract, and doesn't tear them down or consider their inability to perform a notch in their belt.

 

[lowwall]

But you are not refusing to pass. You are just not checking off that they have been able to complete that skill according to agency standards. It's a subtle, yet important difference. And for the brand new future diver... can be intimidating. Instruction is not tearing down another person, it should be to bring them up. Reading instructors making comments of how poorly students perform, or count their "fails" as a point of pride simply irks me.

I think you are reading something into Zeke's comments that isn't there. We know nothing about how he teaches or how he communicated with the students who were unable to meet the requirements. He was merely responding to the OP's question using the OP's terminology.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I think you are reading something into Zeke's comments that isn't there. We know nothing about how he teaches or how he communicated with the students who were unable to meet the requirements. He was merely responding to the OP's question using the OP's terminology.

Perhaps. I read it again and still get the same vibe. No big deal.

 

[boulderjohn]

As you said...the high first time pass rate is an indication that the standards are not REALLY that high. That and anyone that finished a 1-2 day course and thinks they mastered anything is delusional.

The words “master” or “mastery” appearing anywhere in the OW standards is an exaggeration that’s likely just intended to give people an inflated sense of their abilities and encourage them to dive more, take more classes, and make the agency more money.

If certification agencies told people “here’s your OW card...you demonstrated marginal proficiency,” that doesn’t exactly have the same ring to it.

I was about to write a nice, detailed explanation of what the term "mastery" means in the mastery learning concept and how it differs from the way the term is used in common parlance, but I have done it so many, many times in the past that I am just plain sick of it. What will inevitably happen no matter what is people who have no idea of the theory and how it works will just keep making supercilious pronouncements about it anyway, so I am officially giving up.

 

[boulderjohn]

The plumber is a professional who already has some sort of education on the subject unless he's a scammer. Maybe it's a formal certification/degree or maybe he was an apprentice/ojt.

But that's not what we're talking about. Scuba students are people who have signed up for a formal scuba diver (aka open water in some agencies) course. At the end of the course, the instructor has to certify that the student has met the criteria to pass.

Tha analogy has escaped you. The comparison was to the plumber who works until the leak is fixed and the instructor who works until the student succeeds.

 

[boulderjohn]

If everyone (or almost everyone) passes a course first time out, then the bar for passing is probably too low. Unless your intent is just to sell c-cards rather than educate. Or maybe you just happen to be the world's best teacher.

In a mastery learning program, there should be no issue of failing at the end of the class, because all problems have been corrected along the way. In a scuba class, by the time the student reaches the OW checkout dives and has to clear a mask, he or she has done it many times successfully already, and that is even if the student was successful on each occasion. If not, the student got the extra help needed to be able to be successful.

If you polled college professors, I think you would find the best educators have some of the most difficult to pass courses.

According to whose definition of best? If you understand instructional theory, you will realize that the worst instruction possible happens in colleges and universities. There you will find almost no effort being made to help students succeed. The idea there is to present information and then test to see who got it despite the miserable instructional techniques.

I taught in an experimental program in the Colorado School of Mines, one the the best engineering schools in nation. I was part of a team of instructional experts brought in to try to improve their struggling writing program. When we tried to introduce mastery learning techniques, we were rebuffed. They wanted nothing to do with that sort of stuff, and the program ended. I am going to reproduce their argument below, and I swear to you there is no exaggeration. I am sure they would agree with what I am writing in the way I am writing it.

1. If we used those methods, many more students would be successful in reaching the standards of the class.
2. If many more students reached the standards of the class, we would have too many students getting good grades, and it would look like we were being too easy.
3. It is important to see if students can succeed and get good grades without good instruction, because that tells prospective employers who the true self-directed learners are.
4. It is very important that a good percentage of these highly qualified students fail the class, even if their work met all standards, so that we can look like we have very high standards. There is therefore no good reason to provide extra help to struggling students, because they help maintain a good failure rate.

So, is that your idea of ideal instruction? To have as many people fail as possible so you look tough?

 

[Darnold9999]

In a mastery learning program, there should be no issue of failing at the end of the class, because all problems have been corrected along the way. In a scuba class, by the time the student reaches the OW checkout dives and has to clear a mask, he or she has done it many times successfully already, and that is even if the student was successful on each occasion. If not, the student got the extra help needed to be able to be successful.

According to whose definition of best? If you understand instructional theory, you will realize that the worst instruction possible happens in colleges and universities. There you will find almost no effort being made to help students succeed. The idea there is to present information and then test to see who got it despite the miserable instructional techniques.

I taught in an experimental program in the Colorado School of Mines, one the the best engineering schools in nation. I was part of a team of instructional experts brought in to try to improve their struggling writing program. When we tried to introduce mastery learning techniques, we were rebuffed. They wanted nothing to do with that sort of stuff, and the program ended. I am going to reproduce their argument below, and I swear to you there is no exaggeration. I am sure they would agree with what I am writing in the way I am writing it.

1. If we used those methods, many more students would be successful in reaching the standards of the class.
2. If many more students reached the standards of the class, we would have too many students getting good grades, and it would look like we were being too easy.
3. It is important to see if students can succeed and get good grades without good instruction, because that tells prospective employers who the true self-directed learners are.
4. It is very important that a good percentage of these highly qualified students fail the class, even if their work met all standards, so that we can look like we have very high standards. There is therefore no good reason to provide extra help to struggling students, because they help maintain a good failure rate.

So, is that your idea of ideal instruction? To have as many people fail as possible so you look tough?

I taught in a law school 25 years ago - none of this surprises me. Thankfully most of this kind of thinking is getting weeded out, however the underlying attitudes still exist.

 

[eleniel]

I didn't certify the first time I went through OW - I didn't technically fail and did well with the academics and skills, I just couldn't physically walk with the gear on so I didn't stand a chance at the OW dive portion and certifying.
At the time I was too embarrassed to ask for help - if I had, the instructor would have likely found ways of helping me out (such as gearing up in the water) but I didn't bring it up. Looking back at it now, if I was too embarrassed to ask for help I was definitely not ready to start actually diving where communication is extremely important.

In my second OW course (about 10 years later), one woman couldn't complete her skills despite a lot of 1 on 1 attention - she couldn't handle taking her mask off in the water and was struggling to even put her face in the water with the mask on and regulator in her mouth (in the shallow end of the pool). She worked with the instructor or assistant instructor for several weeks of OW training before she just stopped coming - the rest of her family certified.

The instructor I learned from (both times) has a very low fail % but not a crazy-high pass % - I suspect he doesn't pass divers who aren't ready for it but rather than failing them works with them until either they are ready or until they realize diving isn't for them at this time. Both times the course was more than a few days (probably a month and a half each time from what I can remember, maybe a bit longer) and we had numerous and frequent opportunities to practice - the shop has their own pool and students could come in at any time to practice skills and work with shop staff. The focus was definitely on mastery of skills rather than a cert factory.

 

[tarponchik]

In my class one guy failed OW exam because of ear problem. He tried really hard but just could't go down and surfaced with blood running down from one of his ears.

 

[wnissen]

In my class one guy failed OW exam because of ear problem. He tried really hard but just could't go down and surfaced with blood running down from one of his ears.

Yeah, that could have been me. Valsalva did nothing for me, on dive 3 I just could not equalize, eventually managed to somehow get down, came back up and immediately got vertigo. Very scary. Went to a DAN-recommended ENT and got the go ahead to try again, more gently, and certified, but it could have easily gone the other way. Now, whether that would count as a failure or choosing not to pursue is another question, but I really had to take a hard look at whether diving was right for me.