Who do you trust? Choosing vendors.

[NudeDiver]

Last fall, when we were planning a trip to South Beach, we did extensive research on where to stay. We used numerous hotel review sites, and were shocked to find that there were a fair number of reviews rating rather expensive hotels as complete fleabags. Even places that were $150/night or more, were getting awful ratings. And it's not like it was one or two - it was, maybe half! We were so discouraged, we had not seen anything like that before, and didn't know what to make of it. What we ended up doing was going to a price point that seemed to result in about a 50/50 mix of good/bad reviews, and just hoped for the best. As it turns out, the place was just fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So - coming current, I've been reading up on dive operators in a particular vacation spot that is extremely popular on here. I've researched several of the "top brands" and have been shocked, to once again, find some really negative reviews. Many are fairly in-depth and specific, and are also rather convincing - and it seems that the poster probably has a legitimate complaint - and if it is true (as posted), represents a fairly significant black mark against that operator.

So - while I realize that no matter how good a place is (or how bad it is for that matter), there will always be SOMEONE who has to complain, bitch, moan, or whine about whatever. Maybe it's legit, maybe not. Now - this aside, the question is, what do you do when you find a fair number of such complaints? How can you decide to go with someone, whether it is a hotel or a dive op, when you have read some really negative and specific things that like you say, "wow - holy ****!" and shoots a big hole in their reputation?

So, assuming for a moment that some fraction of these really negative reviews are true (work with me here), and knowing that people who want to complain are more likely to post a review than those who want to praise, how does anyone reconcile these differences? Eventually, at some point - you have the weigh the good, the bad, the ugly and just pick one. Assuming that you do not personally know anyone who can give you a recommendation, how do you go about solving this quandary?? How do you decide which group of complete strangers to trust? How do you confront the vendor in a reasonable way and ask them to respond to these complaints - without seeming overly offensive (dive ops - feel free to chime in on this one)?

Cheers!
nd

 

[Cabbie]

good question...I sometimes email the places I'm interested in and see what sort of response I get. If I get a decent answer, full of information and generally helpful, they stay on the list. Others which don't respond or just send "automatic" replies are binned. Otherwise, read all the reviews and see where the reviewers have come from - sometimes than can give you an indication of what they may expect "back home", hence the standards they're using to judge the place they're criticising / reviewing.

 

[JohnsIsland]

Do you trust Consumer Reports? If so, you might trust and enjoy http://undercurrent.org

A few bucks well spent, in my opinion.

Jeff

 

[don Francisco]

Good Question. There's no surefire way to predict from reviews what you'll find when you get there. You have to try to read between the lines to get sense of the place, and try to cull some factual data from the reviews.

What kind of boats do they run, how many dives on a boat? do they let divers spread out or herd them like sheep? how long are the dives? do they let divers dive their air or NDL? etc.

Analyze the complaints looking for patterns, and separate the isolated incidents from those that are repeated, or strong indications of a sloppy operation. If there are multiple complaints about the same issue, it'll be a stronger indicator than when each complaint is about something different.

Try to balance the complaints and praise. If lots of folks come on as defenders of the operation after a bad review, it's an indication of customer loyalty if nothing else. And someone with loyal customers must have something going for them.

In the end you just to have to roll the dice. You know what you look for in a dive operator, and will go with the one that seems to be the best fit.

Over the years, my wife has narrowed the choices in new places to a short list, and from those we've gone with our gut. So far we've been pretty lucky, but if ever we were to make a bad choice, we'd change mid trip if possible, or if not keep our "vacation attitude" and make the best of it.

 

[pmlee]

It's never easy to choose an operator to go out with. I go through what amounts to an interview process with anyone I am going to be dropping my hard earned disposable income on. An email is great-when you get a response. I cannot tell you how many times I have emailed a "dive resort" and never gotten a response. Typically I will look at their websites, email occassionally and always pick up the phone.

Ask questions, my first indicator is do they even want to talk to me? Or, if they are busy are they honest about it, ask if they can have my number, call me back etc. If they do not take the time to answer questions on the phone either then or calling me back, or be honest/forthright, do I even want to go out with them?

I have gone out with operators based upon recommendations of people that I believed to hold the same more or less ruthless ideas as myself, and been disappointed. I will give everyone at least two times unless I feel there are safety issues. I have srticken more than one operator off of my list since the choice of where to spend my money is ultimately mine. I will also share the negative as well as the positive. Many may not agree and that is their choice. As one poster stated; there are those that have inspired loyalty and that can be a good thing. I have found though, that often if you are a "transient" visitor the operator may not be as loyal to "you" as someone that will be there on a regular basis.

With all of that being said, I have been asked by a part time employee to please give her employer another chance. She would make sure that she was on the boat and to please give them all a chance to change the multiple negative impressions that I formed over a period of 4-6 months. I told her I would this summer.

I have this firm and unflexible attitude mostly since I do not have any regular dive buddy. I dive because I love it, and will not sit around and wait for someone else to figure out if they can go, I'm gone and even if my buddy may be a mystery, the dive operator is the one thing I want to be consistent, safe, and to place a priorty on customer service. That is the one thing that will inspire my eventual return to spend money.

 

[CamG]

Greetings NudeDiver! Thank you for asking such an important question. I agree with most, if not all of the concerns and solutions. I have been fortunate so far in this researched crap shoot, but it really is just a matter of time before I have a not so enjoyable experience.
I guess in the end I look at the safety record of the operation very carefully. I scrutinize it beyond the normal glance. Good operators still have accidents because of the key factor most times is diver error. However the response / attitude of the operator will show a tremendous amount about their character as well as diving practices.
While diving in Cozumel, we used an LDS on island everything went alright. They were for the most part a little lax about some issues. However being fair the operation in Playa was stellar / beyond comparison. Pretty tough to put the two together. About two weeks after returning the LDS lost a diver, I wish I could say it came as a surprise but it did not. I was horrified to read the report and felt sorry for the ones involved. It was the key factor that launched me into this research / detective mode of scrutiny. When I am on vacation, I want to have fun and know others who are with me will be safe in the process also. I sleep better knowing that if an accident arises the operation I chose can handle it well. Bear in mind diver responsibility is a large part of this reasoning also. Dive operations are only as safe as the divers who use them.
In the end my philosophy is train hard, research to the best of your ability, check references, scrutinize safety record, check and recheck gear, know and trust your buddy! Hit the water where ever and have the assurance you did the best you could!
Hope this helps! Safe diving to you and have a great vacation!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[Diver Lori]

I agree on analyzing the reviews, because face it, some people are just far too nitpicky for their own good. They see a roach in FLORIDA or the tropics and they freak. Hello?

That being said....there's a place I stay in the Riviera Maya that is a mixed bag when looking on Trip Advisor...the reviews are all over the map! And most of them are correct....as the hotel is not consistent whatsoever...I've been there when it was bad and I've been there when it was quite nice....just depends on how the on-site owner is behaving at the time....nuf said.

A few tidbits....

:shocked2:Typically resorts that cater to divers, and divers alone are not your top notch accomodations.

:blinking:Four and 5 star in the US is equivalent to 3 and 4 star in the Caribbean and Pacific. (know from experience and travel agent advice)

:mooner:The US criteria for cleanliness is not the same out of the country at typical dive destinations, some places are close and some aren't so much. Not every country has a board of health....

And yes, invest in Undercurrent. We've found it to be very useful!!

 

[Colliam7]

So, assuming for a moment that some fraction of these really negative reviews are true (work with me here), and knowing that people who want to complain are more likely to post a review than those who want to praise, how does anyone reconcile these differences?

I will echo several sentiments already expressed, and offer two additional thoughts. As several have mentioned, Undercurrent is worthwhile if you plan to travel periodically, and may offer a reasonably balanced perspective. However, even that forum can be skewed, depending on how vocal individuals are. So, I follow up directly with an operator, if I have concerns or have read mixed reviews, and ask about the specific issues that concern me. I have had experiences where a Roatan operation was panned by more than a few divers, and I had a marvelous experience, because I contacted the operator, asked about specific points raised in negative reviews, and received cogent, and acceptable, responses.

The additional thoughts: 1) for every operation / hotel / resort, etc, you will find at least one person who has a legitimately BAD experience. Their recounting is not whining, it is an accurate reflection of what happened to them on that occasion. You will also find that at least one person who has had a legimately good experience. So, there is always the possibility of a bad experience, even if you have thoroughly vetted an operation; 2) you have to be honest with yourself about your expectations, and what level of service, cleanliness, order, etc. is acceptable to YOU. For example, I love hotel rooms that smell (and look) clean, with soft white sheets, and comfortable beds. But, I have no problems with cots, a slightly musty smell, or a light film of coal dust on the floor in the morning, if my room happens to be near a coal-fueled power plant. As long as the price reflects what I get (AND is consistent with the general costs found in the area), and what I get is reasonably consistent with what I was promised, I am OK. I never assume that I will get anything approaching luxury accomodations in the Caribbean at a facility that caters to divers, even if it is described as 'luxurious', and even if it is expensive. What I won't accept in my room are roaches (plural, not the isolated one that every hotel might have), rats, or snakes, or plumbing that doesn't work. Most other things (scorpions, spiders, frogs (and cute lizards), shared bathrooms) are OK. That's me. Others have to assess their own requirements. My experience with whiners has often been that a disconnect exists between what they expect / require, and what they think they are willing to tolerate. If you are honest with yourself on the front end, the likelihood of disappointment is reduced.

 

[herman]

I agree on analyzing the reviews, because face it, some people are just far too nitpicky for their own good. They see a roach in FLORIDA or the tropics and they freak. Hello?

Them ain't cockroaches, them is Palmetto bugs!
But you are right, the first time someone sees one they freak but fact is, if you have a place near water here in the south, you will get the occasional one. It's a fact of life we accept. During one of our many weeks at Buddy Dive, we had a small lizard in our shower. He stayed in the shower all week. We though it was cool but I can see someone else coming running out of the shower screaming (and posting) about the horrible dragon infestation at the resort.

What you have to remember about on line reviews is for the most part only upset people go looking for a place to vent about their "
bad" experience, happy travelers are happy and have no need to vent. To make matters worse, others chime in in sympathy even though they know nothing of the trip. Some times the reviews are based on unrealistic expectations and others are done by pure horses rears who would complain about a trip to heaven. "The worst dive ever" post on this board is a good example of that.

When looking into a resort I do check on line reviews but I tend to look at the number of post, good and bad. If the ratio is at least 50/50 I don't write the place off, that sounds like a high number but you have to take into consideration the "mostly unhappy people post" factor. IMO, the best source of reviews is actually here. Sure we get the unhappy traveler but we also get to ask questions and our happy travelers also post, usually in the same thread.
You ask who to trust, a difficult thing on line to be sure but one thing I use is "board cred", how long has the poster been on the board, how many post over that time and what if anything have they posted about in other threads. A first time poster totally trashing a place has about zero credibility with me but a long time poster who has in general posted positive things, I give a pretty high "board cred". Not scientific but it does work.

 

[Garrobo]

The problem with reviews is that humans are writing them. Many people want to rent a room for $30 a night and then complain because the room and service aren't five star. I've rented rooms and used operators who have been villified by reviewers and haven't seen a thing wrong with them (for the money). You get what you pay for and I prefer to pay less so my expectations are lower than average. All I want is a reasonably-priced, fairly clean, insect-free and quiet room in which the commode, heat and AC work with lots of towels.