detroit diver
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Okay, let's say you do. How do you know it works?
Which regulator should you donate?
- Thread starter Wendy
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Okay, let's say you do. How do you know it works?
Sitting and reading and have to jump in.
I have very limited experience diving with strangers - two boat dives on vacation. Only one other person brought their own gear, and I buddied with him. We did a quick pre-dive, not only did we confirm our air set-up, but that they both were functional. We also verified how our weight systems worked and our releases. Took less than a minute. While this is SOP for everyone I have ever dove with, is this not standard practice? I dont care if someone is PADI, DIR, whatever, as long as we can agree on safe practices.
I use an AIR 2. Like DIR, it is close like a bungeed octo, and I donate my primary. In my PADI OW we were told to check with our buddy and donate the regulator that fit our set-up. The AIR 2 does limit my head movement, although I open the Velcro hold down and that frees up a lot of movement. I dont mind this trade-off for how clean the system is. I have a second shoulder dump so I do not need to take it out to adjust my buoyancy.
It seems like most of this discussion revolved around knowing where a buddys octo is, and if it works. What kind of pre-dive check do you all do?
I have very limited experience diving with strangers - two boat dives on vacation. Only one other person brought their own gear, and I buddied with him. We did a quick pre-dive, not only did we confirm our air set-up, but that they both were functional. We also verified how our weight systems worked and our releases. Took less than a minute. While this is SOP for everyone I have ever dove with, is this not standard practice? I dont care if someone is PADI, DIR, whatever, as long as we can agree on safe practices.
I use an AIR 2. Like DIR, it is close like a bungeed octo, and I donate my primary. In my PADI OW we were told to check with our buddy and donate the regulator that fit our set-up. The AIR 2 does limit my head movement, although I open the Velcro hold down and that frees up a lot of movement. I dont mind this trade-off for how clean the system is. I have a second shoulder dump so I do not need to take it out to adjust my buoyancy.
It seems like most of this discussion revolved around knowing where a buddys octo is, and if it works. What kind of pre-dive check do you all do?
Pre-buddy checks should be part of the SOP for diving, especially when diving with a new buddy or stranger. But what if you have a buddy that isn't very attentive or if they are preoccupied lobstering, shooting a fish, taking a picture. Your buddy may not end up being the person that you get your air from. I'm going to get air from the first person I find that has a working air supply. I'm not planning on doing safety checks iwth every diver in the water that day to see where their backup reg is located.
I understand. I donate my primary and use the backup. Didn't mean to get off track on the tread, but the talk of not knowing if an octo is going to work is scary, but probable realistic. I like to think of myself as cool under pressure, but I am sure that would change in proportion to the amount of time since my last breath. 
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill
Zept
Contributor
I breathe off it during the buddy check. And I dive with my buddy. I'm not saying an OOA situation would always play out in a textbook manner, but I do check that everything's in place.
Z
Theres a hiccup on this note in that a moderator accidentally deleted one of my replies, and its going to take me a little time to reconstruct it.
However, one of the major points of the reply was Hicks law that folks may want to research and ponder how it might apply when diving in a group or with different buddies on different days with different setups.
Roak
However, one of the major points of the reply was Hicks law that folks may want to research and ponder how it might apply when diving in a group or with different buddies on different days with different setups.
Roak
Zept
Contributor
Hick's law: decision time is proportional to the log of the number of choices.
If my maths is correct, this means decision time increases as the number of choices increases, but the relationship isn't linear.
Hick says reaction time increases by a fixed amount each time the number of choices doubles. If your decision time slows down by 2 seconds when the number of choices goes from 2 to 4, it should slow down by a further 2 seconds when the number of choices goes from 4 to 8. I think that's right, anyway.
I'm not sure this theory applies on an OOA situation, because I doubt that an OOA diver considers all the options. I suspect they choose for the first acceptable solution that springs to mind.
Roak, what was your take on this?
Zept
If my maths is correct, this means decision time increases as the number of choices increases, but the relationship isn't linear.
Hick says reaction time increases by a fixed amount each time the number of choices doubles. If your decision time slows down by 2 seconds when the number of choices goes from 2 to 4, it should slow down by a further 2 seconds when the number of choices goes from 4 to 8. I think that's right, anyway.
I'm not sure this theory applies on an OOA situation, because I doubt that an OOA diver considers all the options. I suspect they choose for the first acceptable solution that springs to mind.
Roak, what was your take on this?
Zept
Think the OOA situation through. Breath out, pause, can't breath in. Where is the buddy? Go for the buddy! Is the buddy looking my way? Elapsed time before I can get a reg? It is probably better we should all carry a redundant air supply.
In an urgent situation the only reg I expect you will instinctively go for, is the one in the buddy's mouth!
During OOA simulation practice I have had occasions when divers did not respond to my OOA signal and I have taken the reg from their mouths. In an OOA situation there is little time to wave hands or get out your slate and have a conversation. I think it may be better if agencies train divers to "signal + snatch."
I used to carry the octo on a long hose set up on my left, it fastened to a hose clip on my bcd and the reg cover has got badly scratched up over the last two years. When properly presented it was in a good position for giving maximum freedom to the OOA diver with the least inconvenience to the donating diver. In that position it was in a poor position for my own use.
I changed the set up on the last service, switched the octo to the short hose and set it up on the right hand and bungied around my neck, put my primary reg on the long hose. In training practice I find no problem with the donation of the primary reg; for the octo there is greater protection for the cover, its in an easier position to test on the buddy check and immediatly available in a lost reg situation when set up in this manner.
I have a form of Air2 on my bcd a "buddy auto air"; if you have a reg with only three lp ports and wear a dry suit its the only way you can have an octo. I don't think its very good, it breathes okay underwater but try breathing out of it doing a simple task on the suface like floating and putting on your fins the breathing qualities are inferior to an R190 octo, though this may be due to a mismatch with my 1st stage, or other factors. If there's interstage pressure creep on the 1st stage my auto air starts to leak.
In an urgent situation the only reg I expect you will instinctively go for, is the one in the buddy's mouth!
During OOA simulation practice I have had occasions when divers did not respond to my OOA signal and I have taken the reg from their mouths. In an OOA situation there is little time to wave hands or get out your slate and have a conversation. I think it may be better if agencies train divers to "signal + snatch."
I used to carry the octo on a long hose set up on my left, it fastened to a hose clip on my bcd and the reg cover has got badly scratched up over the last two years. When properly presented it was in a good position for giving maximum freedom to the OOA diver with the least inconvenience to the donating diver. In that position it was in a poor position for my own use.
I changed the set up on the last service, switched the octo to the short hose and set it up on the right hand and bungied around my neck, put my primary reg on the long hose. In training practice I find no problem with the donation of the primary reg; for the octo there is greater protection for the cover, its in an easier position to test on the buddy check and immediatly available in a lost reg situation when set up in this manner.
I have a form of Air2 on my bcd a "buddy auto air"; if you have a reg with only three lp ports and wear a dry suit its the only way you can have an octo. I don't think its very good, it breathes okay underwater but try breathing out of it doing a simple task on the suface like floating and putting on your fins the breathing qualities are inferior to an R190 octo, though this may be due to a mismatch with my 1st stage, or other factors. If there's interstage pressure creep on the 1st stage my auto air starts to leak.
sea nmf
Contributor
Can one of you please post a link showing a picture of the "bungeed around the neck" set up?
My mind's eye sees something that will choke the air right out of me!
Please?
-becky
My mind's eye sees something that will choke the air right out of me!
Please?
-becky
detroit diver
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Here's one lousy picture. I'll try to find a better one later on.
http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equip_moreimages.htm
BTW, it's not that tight to choke you. In fact, it hangs just below your chin without squeezing your neck.
http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equip_moreimages.htm
BTW, it's not that tight to choke you. In fact, it hangs just below your chin without squeezing your neck.
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