Which has a higher rate of failure a SPG or a transmitter?

[Skodises]

I don't have many dives in when compared to everyone else here, but I do have some experience with transmitter failures. Since very early in my career I've dived hoseless AI (Oceanic DataTrans Plus, purchased new in '97). This was a nice setup, in that the computer was hard-synced to the transmitter by programming in the transmitter serial number- there was never a sync issue, provided the transmitter powered up at all. Unfortunately, some fraction of the time it wouldn't power up when the air was turned on, requiring the rig to be pressurized and depressurized repeatedly until it finally woke up.

Just got back from a two-legged dive trip to STT and GCM. Had fresh batteries in, did a pool dive before traveling to check everything out, worked fine. Got to STT, and the transmitter failed on the first dive- and would not power up again after multiple tries. Swapped for rental gear from the op (Aqua Marine, who are great people!), punched in serial number 9999999 to keep the computer from looking for a transmitter, and went on with my dives. Bought a brass and glass spg and said "to hell with it" for the rest of the trip.

Got to GCM, and on the first boat from Ocean Frontiers, ran into a guy with the exact same setup, purchased at almost the same time in 1997. We got to the dive site, he turned on his air- no transmitter. He went through the same dance I had the week before, borrowed a spare set from the boat, and carried on. We spent some quality time on the ride back commiserating...

I'd already replaced my wife's hoseless setup with the Pro Plus, but I figured I'd get a little more life out of mine. We'd already experienced the DataTrans delayed y2k problem- the poor thing can't accommodate any date past Dec 31 2010. So it was clearly time to retire it- I logged all the dives on this trip as 1996. (;-) Itll be replaced with a Pro Plus before the next trip.

That run with OF was fun for one other reason. I got to witness the failure of a Miflex HP hose firsthand. It was only about 3 months old, according to the owner, and it failed right at the first stage fitting when the rig was initially pressurized. Very impressive- the inner yellow (Kevlar, maybe?) braid appeared to have opened up as the hose flexed, allowing the inner liner to extrude out between the strands and burst out through the outer black dress braid...

 

[tadawson]

I'm still trying to figure out why some folks in this thread are calling anything that is AI wireless . . . . There are plenty of AI computers out there that go on the hose, and have the same feature set as wireless (well, save for the wireless) without any of the liabilities.

And that is where my gear lives . . . . I *like* the AI features, and I *don't* trust the wireless, and having a hose does not bother me at all - I figure if I need an SPG to backup the wireless anyhow, then I still have a hose, so what's the point after all?

- Tim

 

[dmoore19]

I'm still trying to figure out why some folks in this thread are calling anything that is AI wireless . . . .

- Tim

Maybe because the thread title is a question about failure rates between a SPG and a Transmitter. I assume the transmitter to be part of a hose-less system though I might be wrong.

 

[shoredivr]

As I wrote on the other thread about AI, on one dive weekend last August two of my buddies had their Air Integrated computers crap out, one IIRC Aladdin Galileo, the other a less bells and whistle type Air Intergated. Both were newer models. The result for them was less dives. The result for me was to confirm how great a simple SPG is.

I've also seen synch problems for other divers on other days.

I've been diving for 14 years, have 6 SPGs and no problems. I did have a Diverite Duo computer crap out on me in 60 ft of water, the screen just went grey. Not a battery issue and the computer was replaced by DiveRite. But I have a backup bottom timer so there was no problem on the dive.

.

 

[Skodises]

One thing I do intend to do is to get a spare Oceanic hose-based HP QD setup, and graft it onto my new brass and glass SPG for the save-a-dive kit once I get my own Pro Plus before the next trip. That way, if one of our AI computers craps out, either my wife or I can just swap the old SPG onto the hose, and dive with a non-AI backup computer. Much easier than having to swap hoses, and lighter to pack... That's definitely an advantage of having common gear.

 

[Hatul]

In today's world of diving, which has a higher rate of failure a SPG or a transmitter?

Both of these tools can fail, but which one fails
more often. Our experience is the Old reliable SPG.

High Pressure hoses break, gauges stick, flood or dynamic o-rings fail!

We use Galileo Sol dive computers in all our training.

However, our repair dept. has more problems with the SPG's that we service than transmitters.

I suspect the transmitter fails much more commonly than the analog, but the transmitter issues are not repair issues. It's transient failures, dead battery, difficulty or delay with pairing, and that sort of thing. I also dive with the Galileo Sol and like it a lot but still recommend a small analogue gauge on the other HP port. For one thing after you turn the computer on it takes a couple of minutes before it pairs and I don't want to stand and wait. If you turn it on before, the computer may shut off. And I've had transient signal loss during diving. The tank pressure is just too important a piece of data to lose.

Adam

 

[Jax]

I can't comment on transmitters except second-hand, but a) they sometimes don't sync, and b) the batteries go fairly quickly, and there is no indicator to tell you when the battery is low.

I can talk about SPGs versus computers. I've had ONE gauge fail in six years, and it didn't "fail". The face leaked, and over a couple of days, enough algae grew in the gauge to make it difficult to read. On the other hand, I've had a Vytec go belly-up (and lose the data on about 20 dives I hadn't downloaded yet). I've had two other computers die, one which began bounce diving to 275 feet in my hotel room, and another which just shorted out and was unusable. So that's three computers to one gauge. I think gauges are simpler, and less likely to fail.

This is one reason why I am a Uwatec fan. The systems are designed to fail safe -- you don't have to guess if it is screwed up, it simply won't work. However, every time mine has failed, it has been due to an 'old' battery that just died. Every dive was still on the computer when it came back from the battery replacement and checkout. I had ONE transmitter fail from not-human error. I drowned a transmitter and sent it in for repair. Uwatec offered me a refurbished on at half price. That one slowly lost connectivity until it just would connect. Uwatec replaced it under warranty.

But . . . I don't trust my life to a computer. I have SPGs. Transmitters are for fun.

 

[RonFrank]

We are comparing apples to pizza. A hockey puck SPG is as simple as it gets, yet these things fail. An AI wireless computer is about as complex as they come offering up dozens of functions and configurable options. It's hardly a valid comparison.

The AI unit provides all the functionality one wants for recreational diving period. Depth, Dive time, Air Pressure, Ascent rates, Nitrogen loads, alarms indicating all sorts of stuff like low pressure and ascent rate violations, even how quickly you and your buddies are burning through gas, all on your wrist. Nothing else is necessary, a true one gauge solution. The SPG provides one thing and one thing only, tank pressure.

For whatever reason divers seem to want to use old technology. The rational seems rather flawed. In an age of computerized brakes on cars, and computer controlled everything many divers reject technology and I honestly can not explain it. Your life is literally dependent on technology on a daily basis yet many reject the very things the they depend on daily. I dive the Epic and have had unbelievably good luck with this computer. Granted I carry a backup. Everything electronic you subject to an underwater environment will break eventually. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Hatul]

We are comparing apples to pizza. A hockey puck SPG is as simple as it gets, yet these things fail. An AI wireless computer is about as complex as they come offering up dozens of function and configurable options. It's hardly a valid comparison.

The AI unit provides all the functionality one wants for recreational diving period. Depth, Dive time, Air Pressure, Ascent rates, Nitrogen loads, alarms indicating all sorts of stuff like low pressure and ascent rate violations, even how quickly you and your buddies are burning through gas, all on your wrist. Nothing else is necessary. The SPG provides one thing and one thing only, tank pressure. Hardly a one gauge solution.

For whatever reason divers seem to want to use old technology. The rational seems rather flawed. In an age of computerized brakes on cars, and computer controlled everything many divers reject technology and I honestly can not explain it. Your life is literally dependent on technology on a daily basis yet many reject the very things the they depend on daily. I dive the Epic and have had unbelievably good luck with this computer. Granted I carry a backup. Everything electronic you subject to an underwater environment will break eventually. Your mileage may vary.

It's funny I'm reading your lamentation how divers don't trust technology and at the end you say that you too carry a backup gauge just in case. I do then same, and if I do a deep dive or repetitive I take a second computer.

 

[tadawson]

Maybe because the thread title is a question about failure rates between a SPG and a Transmitter. I assume the transmitter to be part of a hose-less system though I might be wrong.

That would be called "wireless" - calling it "AI" is still not accurate . . . since that is not the only way to go AI.

My point was simple - if you want AI, you don't have to go wireless, unlike what some of the posts here would lead you to believe. Benefits without liabilities, plain and simple . .

- Tim