Which drysuit?

[cobaltblue]

My wife and I are sick of diving wet, (and cold). We have decided to go with drysuits. I am planning on going with custom fit as I know that is better.

My questions are these: what material and why? what brand and why?

We dive in Lake Michigan mostly so we see alot of water below 45*.

Any experience you can share would be great.

Thanks

 

[pdoege]

You probably cannot go wrong with any of them.

I personally have about 200 dives on my Dive Rite 905, but it is not the only suit around.

I would come up with a budget for the suit, undergarment, and whatnot and then go from there.

Good deals can be had used, just be sure to remember that the seals may need to be replaced.

I would ask divers in your area what they use to get a general idea of what you are looking at.

Regards,
Peter Doege

 

[dab]

The first decision you need to make is neoprene vs shell. Both have advantages and disadvantages, and there is lots of info out there regarding the pros and cons of each. Once you have made that decision, then you'll need to look at the different makes and the pros and cons of each to narrow down your choices. There is a lot of homework to do before plunking down your money. I also do mostly Great Lakes diving, and I use a Poseidon Unisuit. It's a semi-compressed neoprene and really keeps me warm with minimal undergarments, dries fast, and will provide insulation even if you get a leak in it. For what I use it for, Great Lakes wreck diving, I love it. However, It can be very hot suiting up on 90 degree days and can also be too warm in shallower water. They all have thier advantages and disadvantages. I wouldn't dive in the Great Lakes without a dry suit. Just my .02

 

[jonnythan]

I cannot emphasize this enough: SPEND THE MONEY ON A QUALITY, WARM, CUSTOM UNDERGARMENT.

It's silly to spend the money on a custom drysuit and pair it up with ill fitting undergarments. For the water temps you describe, you *need* to get something with Thinsulate.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

My wife and I are sick of diving wet, (and cold). We have decided to go with drysuits. I am planning on going with custom fit as I know that is better.

My questions are these: what material and why? what brand and why?

We dive in Lake Michigan mostly so we see alot of water below 45*.

Any experience you can share would be great.

I dive just a little further North and West of you up here in Canuckistan.

Check this thread about this subject.

I prefer the trilaminate / shell style suits, but it's personal preference. Do lots of research, try some on, and ask alot of questions. Make sure you get it right the first time as it's a sizable investment.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

After diving trilams for well over a decade, I switched to neoprene suits and really like them. The stretchy nature of the fabric allows a much snugger fit with no loss of flexibility or mobility. They also swim much better than a shell suit as the snugger fit translates to less drag and less air movement in the suit and in the heavier undergarments needed in a shell suit. Squeeze is also much less aparent so you can comfortably use less air in them. As indicated above, if you get a leak, you stay warm and usually do not notice it until the end of the dive as the neoprene still provides excellent insulation even if the suit were fully flooded as the warmth is still be comparable to a 7mm semi-dry. In a shell suit with soggy insulation, you get real cold, real fast.

They are in my experience (depths to 150 ft and bottom temps in the low 40's summer and low 30's winter) much warmer than a shell suit for a given bulk and you can dive with much thinner undergarments. The downside however is that they can be too warm in water much over 65 degrees.

Suiting up on a hot day is not too much of an issue if you hop in and get the suit wet as the nylon fabric on the outside of a neoprene suit gets a nice swamp cooler effect going. Converesly in cold, windy weather, a windproof rain suit oves the top of the suit after a dive will keep the swamp cooling in check during a surface interval. In really cold weather it does not matter as ice will quickly coat the suit and stop any swamp cooling.

 

[docmartin]

I am planning on going with custom fit as I know that is better.

only better if you need it. for a good number of people custom fit brings no improvement because they have "stock" bodies.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

I know this is your opinion based on your experiences, but, I disagree.

Oceanic's new BioDry suits made of BioFlex material are unlike any other trilaminate out there. There's a very good reason the US Military, FBI, and British Navy "ALL" use Oceanic shell suits. Think they're going to use a suit that is inferior, especially in a combat situation?

I'm currently diving in the Oceanic AerDura trilaminate, the same suit that the British Navy/SAS use. I have none of the issues that you've described, what so ever.

Trilaminates / shell suits are just as warm if not warmer than a neoprene. At depth, neoprene loses its thermal capabilities under compression. When you come back into shallower depths, the suit uncompresses and causes some positive bouyancy issues that are easily overcome, but a pain in the rear end.

The snugger fit of most neoprene suits does not allow for the same amount thermal protection if necessary, and are not as flexible as a trilam/shell. And, I've NEVER had any squeeze issues, even when wearing only a pair of shorts and a tshirt under it.

With regards to the drag issue, give me a break... we're not racing around coral heads are we? I thought the whole idea of diving was to relax, go slow, and take in all the sights. It's tough to take in the sights when you're diving at a speed of 40kts, not to mention what type of SAC rates you'd be getting.

With the proper thermal wear under a trilaminate, you will not be any colder than if you were wearing a neoprene drysuit. Besides, if you take proper care of your suit and inspect it before and after every dive, you should never have a flood in the first place.

IMHO, seals on neoprene suits are also a downside. Even with custom fitted suits, my friends with neoprene suits/seals get squirts all the time down the neck and wrists.

Finally, a neoprene suit takes forever to dry out. It can't be rolled up, and doesn't have the same type of durability that a cordura nylon shell has.

After diving trilams for well over a decade, I switched to neoprene suits and really like them. The stretchy nature of the fabric allows a much snugger fit with no loss of flexibility or mobility. They also swim much better than a shell suit as the snugger fit translates to less drag and less air movement in the suit and in the heavier undergarments needed in a shell suit. Squeeze is also much less aparent so you can comfortably use less air in them. As indicated above, if you get a leak, you stay warm and usually do not notice it until the end of the dive as the neoprene still provides excellent insulation even if the suit were fully flooded as the warmth is still be comparable to a 7mm semi-dry. In a shell suit with soggy insulation, you get real cold, real fast.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I know this is your opinion based on your experiences, but, I disagree.

Oceanic's new BioDry suits made of BioFlex material are unlike any other trilaminate out there. There's a very good reason the US Military, FBI, and British Navy "ALL" use Oceanic shell suits. Think they're going to use a suit that is inferior, especially in a combat situation?

I'm currently diving in the Oceanic AerDura trilaminate, the same suit that the British Navy/SAS use. I have none of the issues that you've described, what so ever.

Trilaminates / shell suits are just as warm if not warmer than a neoprene. At depth, neoprene loses its thermal capabilities under compression. When you come back into shallower depths, the suit uncompresses and causes some positive bouyancy issues that are easily overcome, but a pain in the rear end.

The snugger fit of most neoprene suits does not allow for the same amount thermal protection if necessary, and are not as flexible as a trilam/shell. And, I've NEVER had any squeeze issues, even when wearing only a pair of shorts and a tshirt under it.

With regards to the drag issue, give me a break... we're not racing around coral heads are we? I thought the whole idea of diving was to relax, go slow, and take in all the sights. It's tough to take in the sights when you're diving at a speed of 40kts, not to mention what type of SAC rates you'd be getting.

With the proper thermal wear under a trilaminate, you will not be any colder than if you were wearing a neoprene drysuit. Besides, if you take proper care of your suit and inspect it before and after every dive, you should never have a flood in the first place.

IMHO, seals on neoprene suits are also a downside. Even with custom fitted suits, my friends with neoprene suits/seals get squirts all the time down the neck and wrists.

Finally, a neoprene suit takes forever to dry out. It can't be rolled up, and doesn't have the same type of durability that a cordura nylon shell has.

I was raised on the DUI indoctrination against neoprene drysuits and I belived it right up until I tried a modern neoprene suit. I would not go back to a trilam suit at this point. I have done ice diving/33 degree water diving in both (to depths of around 130 ft) and have found a 7mm neoprene suit with a pair of sweats underneath to be as warm as or warmer than a trilam with heavy thinsulate undergarments.

The compression/bouyancy issues are pretty much an urban ledgend. At one point neoprene suits did require substantially more weight due to chest mounted exhaust valves that trapped a great deal of air in the suit. That is no ,loner the case with neoprene suits with arm or cuff mounted exhaust valves. In my experience I dive with the same weight in both a trilam or neoprene dry suit with comparable warmth.

Compression is an issue, but you have to ask yourself what compresses more, neoprene or the air lofted in the heavier undergarments of a trilam? Obviously it's the air in the undergarments and more adding and venting is required during the dive with a trilam to loft the insulation. I agree with you in theory that a compressed wet suit should offer a lot less insulation than a trilam where the air added continues to loft the insulation at depth, but I have to say that in practice at depth in very cold water I have not found that actually occurring.

Durability is an issue I suppose, but it is not an economic one. My spouse just retired her Atlan drysuit after about 350 dives (and she bought it well used with an indeterminiate number of previous dives). The zipper is in need of replacement but the suit is otherwise in very good shape. The retirement was not due to the suit being worn out but rather due to being able to get a very lightly used replacement suit for about $50.00 more than the cost of replacing the zipper. That is never going to happen with a dove once or twice trilam suit.

Even buying new, you are only going to spend $500-$600 on a neoprene suit compared to two to four times that amount for a trilam and undergarments. So while a trilam may last 2-3 times as long, It is not really more economical.

Speed is not the issue, but drag is. Drag is an exponential function as drag inceases as the square of the velocity. This means if you double your speed, you increase your drag by a factor of four. Water is also 800 times denser than air so drag is a big factor even at very slow speeds. That is why streamlinging is considered to be so important to divers. Many divers will agonize over hose routing and eliminating danglies to optimize stremalining then jump in a baggy trilam and go diving. I suspect they are missing at least some of the point.

So unless you are planning to stay completely motionless during the dive, drag is a factor that impacts SAC rate. The point is that if a neoprene suited diver is maintaining the same pace as his trilam suited buddy, he will be overcoming less drag, expending less energy and using less air even though we are only talking speeds in the 1/2 kt to 1 kt range.

It's a personal choice and the nice thing about drysuits is that people have a choice, but whatever you do, make it an informed choice.

 

[crisis_12]

I've been using a White's trilam. I'm VERY happy with it. I have tried crushed neoprene, but didn't like it as much as the trilam. I can't point at any objective reason why-just personal preference. One nice thing about the new Whites are the interchangable pockets you can hook on. I wish they were available when I got mine.

Jonnythan is right-buy the best undergarments that you can afford. I wear a spear suit under for mild water temps but invest in something a little better for real cold water. Andy's undergarments are great.