Which Cert to get?

[Azza]

Almost all people know how they learn best. Just talk to some instructors. Ask some basic questions. Ask how they like to conduct their classes. After 15 minutes or so, you should have a general feeling about the instructor and whether you want to pursue more interaction. You don't have to know anything about diving to know if you're going to click or clash with someone and the style of teaching. That goes for any discipline.

While this is good advice it is not a fool proof way of insuring you get a good instructor. When I did my OW a few years ago I didn’t have a clue who the instructor was until we turned up on the first night. A lot of stores use part-time instructors who you would never meet whilst walking into a shop during the day. I was extremely lucky to get an excellent instructor and have continued to have that good luck.

My girlfriend on the other hand was not so lucky.
We lived in different cities and had a long distance relationship for the first 6 months and when she decided to do her OW course I of course wanted her to fly to Auckland, where I lived at the time, to do it with the shop I worked for and with one instructor I had in mind. However the logistics were too great (mainly the flying after diving) so I flew to [where she was living-don’t want to say] to help her choose an instructor.
Anyway to cut a long story short she found a store she wanted to do her course in and the instructor had been diving for 40 years or so and instructing for 35. I was a little dubious at first as I know what the "old Cray divers" of New Zealand are like. Anyway he said all the right stuff and made all the right motions and my girl was happy so she signed up.
Any she had the choice of being certified NAUI or PADI and she chose PADI. During the course of the theory evenings she rang me and said all they were doing was watching videos and then expected to do a test at the end of each one. I told her this was rubbish and she should tell the instructor she was paying to be instructed, so start instructing. His reply to that was that she chose to do a PADI course and not a NAUI course and PADI chose to teach with videos only, whilst NAUI had actual instruction and if she wanted actual instruction she should have done a NAUI course.
So luckily we met up before her final exam and checkout dives and I spent a whole weekend teaching her the theory behind diving that she should have gotten from her course. When I started teaching her she was scared and confused about everything and by the end of the weekend she had theory down to a tee and was brimming with confidence.
She aced the exam with 100% and then proceeded with the checkout dives.
First dive, according to PADI standards is just a familiarisation dive right? So anyway they did skills on dive one. Dive four the instructor left her with the "Divemaster"- who was actually AOW- to do an 18 metre dive while he stayed with the rest of the class who he didn’t feel should dive to 18 metres as they weren’t confident enough. Again, another breach of PADI standards.
After her course she was so excited as she had previously been quite scared and was really pleased she passed. I have to say at this point I was so proud of her for conquering both her fears and a crap instructor.
Right after the course I took a trip down to go diving with her and completely had to retrain her. The skills on the course were only glanced over and her buoyancy was not to the standard I expect someone to have when having just completed an OW course and she was definantly not as comfortable as she should be.

I am pleased to say now, 38 dives later she is one of the most superb and graceful divers I have ever had the pleasure of diving with outside of the tech realm. She can hold a safety stop in mid water with no visual reference except a depth gauge, to within a foot of her depth and can handle almost any challenge that is thrown at her. She has successfully got her Nitrox Cert, done most of her AOW, perfectly executed over a dozen 30 metre deep dives; done wall dives in mid water were the wall drops away to over 100 metres and simulated 6 decompression dives. Her goal is to finish her AOW and then start moving into the Tech realm within the next couple of years. I believe she will conquer that with hardly a blink. She is taking it slow and is loving her diving and enjoying every dive. She is also a budding naturalist and has far surpassed me in knowledge of the marine life we come across.

Her instructor was a little pissed at me as I wouldn’t let her buy one of his big 7mm two piece farmer john wetsuits, and instead got her into a 7/5mm semi dry, I also got her a backplate & wing, instead of the Poseidon power lift he was trying to sell, and I also supplied her reg complete with long hose/ bungeed back up.
The instructor actually said to her one day that she owed him as they only teach the course so cheap so they can sell gear, and seeing as she didn’t buy much gear of him she owed him.

Now he came across initially as a good instructor. He said all the right things and made all the right noises until the course started. Sometimes you can never tell!

 

[FatCat]

While this is good advice it is not a fool proof way of insuring you get a good instructor. When I did my OW a few years ago I didn’t have a clue who the instructor was until we turned up on the first night. A lot of stores use part-time instructors who you would never meet whilst walking into a shop during the day. I was extremely lucky to get an excellent instructor and have continued to have that good luck.

My girlfriend on the other hand was not so lucky.
...snip...
Now he came across initially as a good instructor. He said all the right things and made all the right noises until the course started. Sometimes you can never tell!

Yah, we've all got stories like that. It doesn't prove anything except that there are some crappy instructors around.

So, while sometimes very entertaining, these stories are not arguments for or against agencies.

Crappy agencies exist as well, but the better-known agencies (the scuba household brands) are not crappy. Some could do with a breath of fresh air, but that still doesn't make them crappy.

 

[Azza]

Yah, we've all got stories like that. It doesn't prove anything except that there are some crappy instructors around.

So, while sometimes very entertaining, these stories are not arguments for or against agencies.

Crappy agencies exist as well, but the better-known agencies (the scuba household brands) are not crappy. Some could do with a breath of fresh air, but that still doesn't make them crappy.

My point Fat Cat is that every one has been saying to go by the instructor not the agency, and I am saying you dont know what your instructor is going to be like until you get in the water with them, and even then some people wouldnt have a clue if they are getting quality education or not.
Incidently the instructor in my above story is both PADI and NAUI and i believe CMAS. He is a CD/IT in one of them as well.

The only way I think you can get a good instructor is either by fluke or on a personal recommendation from an experienced diver that has been taught by the instructor.

 

[Dive-aholic]

While this is good advice it is not a fool proof way of insuring you get a good instructor...

You're right. There is no fool proof way. Any instructor can even answer Walter's questions exactly the right way because he knows the right answers, but doesn't necessarily abide by them. Yes, PADI does the video thing now, which isn't all bad. A lot of people prefer that. But it requires the instructor to also be able to reinforce the trouble areas. The true instruction comes in the pool, not in the classroom, for most people. Again, there is no fool proof way. Even getting a recommendation doesn't guarantee you won't get that instructor on a bad day...

 

[StSomewhere]

You're right. There is no fool proof way. Any instructor can even answer Walter's questions exactly the right way because he knows the right answers, but doesn't necessarily abide by them.

But you as the student should at least realize that something isn't right when the instructor tells you that h/s teaches buoyancy skills but there you are down at the bottom of the pool doing the divers prayer for your mask clearing, regulator retrieval, etc. skills.

 

[Dive-aholic]

But you as the student should at least realize that something isn't right when the instructor tells you that h/s teaches buoyancy skills but there you are down at the bottom of the pool doing the divers prayer for your mask clearing, regulator retrieval, etc. skills.

Right, but you don't know that until you're already in the class, unless you go in and observe the instructor in action before making the final decision.

 

[emtdan]

Would you like some input for your next revision?

please, I wrote the origional version as a rant alone, and I would welcome any critism...

thanks
DES

 

[jbd]

But you as the student should at least realize that something isn't right when the instructor tells you that h/s teaches buoyancy skills but there you are down at the bottom of the pool doing the divers prayer for your mask clearing, regulator retrieval, etc. skills.

By that time the class is nearly over in many cases and the students still won't really know what buoyancy control is anyways. They didn't know going in and they don't know coming out. Sadly they have to take another class specifically to learn the very basics of buoyancy control.

Its really a shame, since there isn't much reason to be on the bottom for more than the first 15 or 20 minutes of the course and teaching really good buoyancy control is easy to do.

 

[StSomewhere]

By that time the class is nearly over in many cases and the students still won't really know what buoyancy control is anyways. They didn't know going in and they don't know coming out. Sadly they have to take another class specifically to learn the very basics of buoyancy control.

And that summarizes my dive training experience in a nutshell. Even with a very experienced instructor, all I learned about buoyancy control in my OW class consisted of the fin pivot on the bottom of the pool, one *attempt* at the "buddah float", and another fin pivot 20' down at the bottom of a training platform. No one would argue that those buoyancy skills are sufficient for reef dives, so why on earth is it enough to get c-card? From any agency? From any instructor?

Again, to the new diver looking for an instructor: Simply ask how they will teach buoyancy skills, without giving away that you know the correct answers. Ask probing questions to find out how much of your training time will be spent at the bottom of the pool, because the so-called "skills" you learn there are useless on real dives. Less than useless, because you'll have a false sense of security. Trust me, your mask or regulator is not going to be gently removed while you are kneeling down on the sand at 20'.

 

[BigboyDan]

All things else being equal: PADI, hands down.