Which cert card to present

[Lorenzoid]

. . . As a consequence, all the standard PADI liability releases call for the signers to acknowledge that the instructor or DM with whom they are working are not agents of PADI.

Since then, it looks like it has become standard for lawsuits to include the agency of the individual being sued, no matter how remote the connection might seem.

Why do we call them "agencies"?

 

[kelemvor]

Because they fit the definition "a business or other organization providing a specific service."

 

[Lorenzoid]

Because they fit the definition "a business or other organization providing a specific service."

That's kind of a silly broad definition. Isn't a more common definition of an "agency" along the lines of a provider of a service on behalf of another?

 

[boulderjohn]

Apparently there is a legal definition of agency, and PADI has made a very clear statement that they are not an agency by that definition. It doesn't matter what we call them--what matters is what they are in legal terms.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I get it. I agree "it doesn't matter what we call them," but it's just something I have wondered about for a long time. I can see why a real estate agency is called that, why an employment agency is called that, why a government agency is called that, etc., but it just sounds odd to me to call an association of dive instructors an "agency" if the instructors aren't doing something--if not in the legal sense as an agent for the association--at least "on behalf of" the association. I wonder if in the early days--before all the lawsuits--the, uh, associations really did think of themselves as having members who train divers on behalf of (as agents of?) the association.

 

[stuartv]

I get it. I agree "it doesn't matter what we call them," but it's just something I have wondered about for a long time. I can see why a real estate agency is called that, why an employment agency is called that, why a government agency is called that, etc., but it just sounds odd to me to call an association of dive instructors an "agency" if the instructors aren't doing something--if not in the legal sense as an agent for the association--at least "on behalf of" the association. I wonder if in the early days--before all the lawsuits--the, uh, associations really did think of themselves as having members who train divers on behalf of (as agents of?) the association.

When the dive pros of an agency are working, aren't they functioning as agents of "the agency"? When you are taking a class from a PADI instructor, isn't the instructor functioning as an agent of PADI to teach you how to dive according to the PADI protocols? Maybe not in the strict legal sense, but still.

 

[boulderjohn]

When the dive pros of an agency are working, aren't they functioning as agents of "the agency"? When you are taking a class from a PADI instructor, isn't the instructor functioning as an agent of PADI to teach you how to dive according to the PADI protocols? Maybe not in the strict legal sense, but still.

Not really. PADI does not pay the instructor. If the instructor is working for a dive shop, the shop sets the conditions of employment and provides the pay. If the instructor is an independent, then the instructor sets the conditions, receives the pay, etc. They may purchase classroom materials from PADI, but the fact that they purchased the dive gear from a someone like Mares does not make them agents of Mares, does it?

Doctors and lawyers graduate from school, get licensed from the states in which they work, and pay annual dues to the AMA or ABA respectively. They are not considered agents of their schools, the state, or the association to which they belong. If they commit malpractice, they can lose their licenses. If they commit malpractice, though, no one sues the college from which they graduated, the state that gave them their licenses, or the association of which they are members.

 

[tursiops]

Not really. PADI does not pay the instructor. If the instructor is working for a dive shop, the shop sets the conditions of employment and provides the pay. If the instructor is an independent, then the instructor sets the conditions, receives the pay, etc. They may purchase classroom materials from PADI, but the fact that they purchased the dive gear from a someone like Mares does not make them agents of Mares, does it?

Doctors and lawyers graduate from school, get licensed from the states in which they work, and pay annual dues to the AMA or ABA respectively. They are not considered agents of their schools, the state, or the association to which they belong. If they commit malpractice, they can lose their licenses. If they commit malpractice, though, no one sues the college from which they graduated, the state that gave them their licenses, or the association of which they are members.

Not yet.

 

[kensuf]

Makes sense gentlemen, thanks..

IMHO, carrying an insurance rider sometimes draws in vultures looking for a quick buck. The liability/risk management thing sucks, we need some sort of tort reform.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thank God I am not with PADI. I would hate to think a scuba agency could force me to file a report on an incident I was not even a party to.

I can only speak for myself, but as a diving professional (NAUI Instructor) I did. It's not a matter of being a party to the incident so much as it is documenting your perspective on what happened in the event that an opportunistic lawyer decides to go after the deep pockets. I got a response from NAUI thanking me for the incident report, and informing me that since I was not directly involved in the incident, no further action on my part would be needed. I never heard another word, but for minimal effort it covered not just their butt, but mine too ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)