Which cave has killed the most divers?

[lowviz]

Two questions for LowViz and the other cavers in this thread. ...//...

Let's all take a deep breath. First, I'm not a caver. I have a cave card. I've been diligently working on my cave skills locally as I plan to return to some unfinished business. The people that the OP should be interviewing are best found somewhere way back in Wakulla Springs. Good luck with that.

If you want the real specifics on any cave, you'll need to get in touch with a local diver or some avid cave diver who knows the local politics. caveatlas.com will give you a nice capsule preview if you just want to check out caves.

So why did I post in this thread? I suppose that I reacted to the OP's attempted body count.

Is there a particular cave in Florida that can be attributed with the most cave diving fatalities? I am talking about Florida caves only. Thanks so much.

He got his answer in the first few posts. But he is planning on making a movie and that is a big deal. It is easy to assume that one just drives to cave country and gets into the system after showing the right card to somebody. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I attempted to bring out the point that cave entrances can be found on anything from private land to the Florida state park system. It is easy to deny access to a cave. Just lock the gate, you don't need dynamite.

I enjoy a "rough-and-tumble" thread at times. But I time myself out when if it becomes mean-spirited. I believe that is where it is now. The OP got what he was looking for and appears to have left the building.

 

[FinnMom]

How about a cave that doesn't exist, or a new/unknown branch of an existing cave that allows you to cross an (west/east?) border. An entrance to an underground river system for instance.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's not just mountaineering. Where I live is one of the primo rock climbing areas in the world, and I know people who have moved here for the purpose of being near our cliffs. Every year people die, oftentimes people who did not have the expertise or the equipment to be doing the kind of climbs they were attempting. One of my sons recently told me about a near death experience he had while in the brain damaged period we call teenage life. Yet, we never hear a murmur about closing access to these sites. I have no idea why they are viewed differently from caves.

Let's look at the Christmas 2013 Eagles Nest episode as an example of what I mean. . . .

Maybe it's human nature to associate mountains, the blue sky, the great outdoors, etc., with "good." Though people understand these places can be dangerous, people believe they can be explored by valiant and brave explorers. Even weekend rock climbers are on the "good" side of the earth. Caves, in contrast, are associated with the underworld. Maybe something embedded deep in our brains associates the dark recesses of the earth with "bad."

 

[boulderjohn]

Where have you found information that they wanted to close off EN due to the fool who killed himself and his son? I take it (and hope) that their effort is gaining little traction?

If you go to the link for the first news article about the recent accident, you will see a discussion following it. You will see family members of the two discussing their past and current efforts to have the cave closed. You will also see the degree to which they are in denial about the divers' responsibility for their own deaths.

 

[RainPilot]

I think there is a visceral difference for most people when it comes to dying out in the open air on a mountain or deep in a dark confined space. I suspect that nearly everyone suffers from claustrophobia to a certain extent and that hits a nerve that most other endeavours don't, regardless of the actual danger involved.

 

[lowviz]

I think there is a visceral difference for most people when it comes to dying out in the open air on a mountain or deep in a dark confined space. ...//...

You are probably right.

Maybe that is why cavers go to such extremes to recover their own, no matter how unworthy the deceased are of the effort.

It is easy to find grisly pictures of who the mountaineers pass by.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Agreed, caves don't kill cave divers, cave divers kill cave divers.

But assuming the genesis of the question is which caves pose the greatest danger to divers, the question would have to be parsed based on deaths per thousand dive-hours dived, for example.

 

[cleanhole]

I'm not sure. But I saw in the news before that two divers died in the Mount Everest underwater cave system in Florida. It's also called Grand Canyon but I think the name's really Eagle's Nest.

 

[KevinNM]

Eagles Nest is a very deep and pretty big system that requires a lot of experience and training to dive safely. And sometimes you just have a really, really bad day.

 

[tbeck3579]

Wreck diving community is largely ok with Andria Doria being known as the "Mount Everest" of wreck diving. There is still debate whether Doria deserves that term or not but there are charters that advertise their trips using that term because the title brings in divers from all over the world. One NJ boat charter also lists the names of all divers who died diving the Andrea Doria on their site and if you are able to find him on his website you will see that the list of names is followed by ...

Death Is Nothing At All

Death is nothing at all...I have only
slipped away into the next room...I am I,
and you are you...whatever we were to
each other that we are still. Call me by
my old familiar name; speak to me in the
easy way which you always used. Put no
difference into your tone; wear no forced
air of solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we
always laughed at the little jokes we
enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of
me, and pray for me.

I also remember the line from "Shadow Divers" which goes something like "Everyone who does deep wreck diving will either die, see someone die or come very close to death himself." My instructor was inspired by the Shadow Divers to take up wreck diving and so is an entire generation of wreck divers. I am thinking of a conversation in which I am trying to convince Robert Kurson not to write his famous novel because it will be bad for wreck diving. I really do not know where to begin such a talk.

This thread has convinced me that there is no equivalent of K2 in caves so there is no equivalent of Edmund Hillary in cave diving. This makes cave divers totally unworthy of a movie. Next time someone asks why are there no good movies on diving then this thread can be pulled as a reference.

I know this is an old thread, but I beg to differ. One of the best movies about diving, which included caves and wrecks, was "The Guardian". It didn't include drunks getting sober, but it did bring to life what real people do for other people.