Where to start?

[signix]

A lesson was learned: I'll never buy a unit then get trained on it. I will always rent or borrow and take the class first before buying. I got lucky that my first unit was perfect for my needs and I have no complaints about it. I was hoping it was going to be the same with the sw.
-

I totally agree with that. I think being able to rent or borrow the unit is very important ot avoid being forced to dive with this CCR. It is nice you were able to not buy it.

I hate the fact that it's impossible to dive it and come back with perfectly dry sorb.
-

I had the same impression but will have to confirm. Diving in cold water you always have humidity in the unit. With the rEvo it all go in the counter lung and sorb are dry. I had humidity in expiring canister but it was pretty good in inspiring canister. I will have to test it longer to have an opinion.


Regarding the other points you have I have not enough experience to appreciate your comments but don't think Edd or Patrick are diving it for money.
When Patrick made the switch it was not as big as it is now.
Mike Young on FB confirm the scrubber capacity and said it will be modified in both manual and website soon. He offered to take back sidewinder for people who are unhappy with the capacity of scrubber.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It helps to have different views on relatively new rebreathers.

 

[rddvet]

I totally agree with that. I think being able to rent or borrow the unit is very important ot avoid being forced to dive with this CCR. It is nice you were able to not buy it.


I had the same impression but will have to confirm. Diving in cold water you always have humidity in the unit. With the rEvo it all go in the counter lung and sorb are dry. I had humidity in expiring canister but it was pretty good in inspiring canister. I will have to test it longer to have an opinion.


Regarding the other points you have I have not enough experience to appreciate your comments but don't think Edd or Patrick are diving it for money.
When Patrick made the switch it was not as big as it is now.
Mike Young on FB confirm the scrubber capacity and said it will be modified in both manual and website soon. He offered to take back sidewinder for people who are unhappy with the capacity of scrubber.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It helps to have different views on relatively new rebreathers.

I always have humidity in my unit as well every dive. But the sorb is never wet. Not even damp. My wife flooded the hell out of her unit and the sorb was slightly moist at best.

As for the Edd and Patric not being in it for the money, I will wholeheartedly disagree. I've known Edd for a long time, and can honestly say he's done an excellent job of creating an exceptional business by finding his niche in the dive industry. He's making money hand over fist with the sidewinder, and his choices in the gear he sells is partially stuff he likes, and alot of what will make him money. That's capitalism, so it's not a shot against Edd or Patric. But currently the sidewinder appears to be one of the most profit producing units on the market and that's why so many instructors are flocking to it. I won't share my sources as to Patric's motivation, but will say they're people he works closely with who've shared stories.

 

[grantctobin]

Thanks for your opinion.
Is this your observations or what you saw around you ?
Regarding the cheaply/poorly built I had the same feeling at first but I don't trust my feeling. After my training I had not the same feeling. I will only be able to confirm/deny after a few years. Looking at what some divers do it looks pretty resistant (Mike Young and Patrick Wiedmann are not very nice with it).
I didn't notice for the ADV mine was working fine. It fires when I was inspiring and rotating on the left at the same time. I acknowledge that and then had no issue.

I did not notice a big difference in WOB with rEvo but I might have been too busy with the course. I did not find any data on this. Do you have some ?

Why don't you like dual scrubber ? For wob?

How have people been able to unlock the tower/loop attachment ? You can see it here and it is pretty solid: I won't say the same about the head of the canister which is only screwed but I have not heard about any issue on this.

What do you mean by lack of secondary po2 monitor ? I had HUD + Petrel and it is pretty common config.

Another thing is that it says 6.2lbs of sorb on their website but it is more 5lbs which is a great difference : Facebook Groups

It is not for a complete beginner but don't you think it might be aceptable for a ccr beginner ?

The author of that video is not realllly the guy I would use as an example. I have a few hundred hours on mine and echo many of Richard concerns. If you heavily modify it, it’s an alright tool for a specific use case. There’s plenty of other posts detailing this here on SB and on FB groups.

 

[signix]

The author of that video is not realllly the guy I would use as an example. I have a few hundred hours on mine and echo many of Richard concerns. If you heavily modify it, it’s an alright tool for a specific use case. There’s plenty of other posts detailing this here on SB and on FB groups.

I think calling it an alright tool for specific job when some very good divers are doing amazing expedition on it feels not totally fair. I will wait to have more experience on my own to discuss this.

 

[Heat Miser]

If you must have a timescale, say a year and 100 hours with decent depth and deco.

It took me 2 years to get to this point, but I don't dive solo (although I have once). I found - finding buddies - available at the same time as you can be a challenge.

I have seen experienced people knock it out in 6 months. But they dive at the drop of a hat, 6-8 times a week on many different set-ups

 

[rjack321]

How do certifications/dives/etc. affect my understanding in physics? Have you taken any engineering courses where you conducted simulations and then actual tests for drag coefficients of your design?

Does this diver (Stratis Kas) looks like his drag coefficient is less than, equal, or greater than a CCR BM diver?

You have ZERO personal experience with this unit, have you even seen one in the flesh?

The first time CCR diver should in no way shape or form be getting a sidewinder or any other SM CCR. They are a specialized tool for a specialized job. Yes I have one with about 175 hours on it. It's a horrible unit for all the reasons @rddvet has listed. It does a few things very well. The new CCR diver has no basis to understand the pluses and minues of any SM unit nevermind finding a competent instructor for it.

 

[rddvet]

I think calling it an alright tool for specific job when some very good divers are doing amazing expedition on it feels not totally fair. I will wait to have more experience on my own to discuss this.

but you also need context. Most of those people doing expedition are either exceptionally biased to side mount (Edd, Patrick, all the guys at Protec) or are using it for situations that require sm (going past the restriction at the bottom of blue abyss). Nobody’s saying dives can’t be done safely with the sw. They can. It is a good unit for what it is, considering there are downsides to every sm rebreather in production. But it’s also a unit with tons of issues that the hardcore sw lovers refuse to acknowledge or admit to.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You have ZERO personal experience with this unit, have you even seen one in the flesh?

Absolutely. A few friends dive one around here. As an mCCR, I do have enough experience to prefer an eCCR. So it isn't for me. But for some reason, crazy people do exist that like an mCCR.

The first time CCR diver should in no way shape or form be getting a sidewinder or any other SM CCR. They are a specialized tool for a specialized job. Yes I have one with about 175 hours on it. It's a horrible unit for all the reasons @rddvet has listed. It does a few things very well. The new CCR diver has no basis to understand the pluses and minues of any SM unit nevermind finding a competent instructor for it.

Not sure what reasons were listed, as that person is on my ignore list. Anyway, I reject the premise that someone who wishes to start with a SM CCR unit has no basis for finding a competent instructor. They do the same thing in terms of querying for recommendations on social media (definitely not SB lol) for good ones. Who do accomplished people recommend? What are the opinions of the students they produce? Who has performance requirements (in this case OC sidemount) before beginning. SM CC is not the place to address general SM issues. As Stratis told me, someone new to CC can start on SM IF their SM skills are solid. Not sure if Tomas Michura dives CC, but surely you cannot tell me that he needs to go to a BM unit before starting on SM.

 

[rddvet]

Not sure what reasons were listed, as that person is on my ignore list. .

Dang, I feel special. Wonder what I did to annoy you. So many options to choose from, but happy to hear it either way.
I tend to not put people on the ignore list because even if I don't like what they say alot of times or even all the time, sometimes they do have valid points that are worth hearing. Maybe you should consider that? Cause sometimes I do make good points. Not often though.
But keep talking out your rear end about a unit you've never dove either way. Posting photos of Stratis who is one of those hard core the sidewinder is the best thing ever, facebook internetf amous divers is beneficial. Or is it?
I bet I just made sure I stay on your ignore list for my petty comments. I figured I might as well shore up your reasons.

 

[grantctobin]

Dang, I feel special. Wonder what I did to annoy you. So many options to choose from, but happy to hear it either way.
I tend to not put people on the ignore list because even if I don't like what they say alot of times or even all the time, sometimes they do have valid points that are worth hearing. Maybe you should consider that? Cause sometimes I do make good points. Not often though.
But keep talking out your rear end about a unit you've never dove either way. Posting photos of Stratis who is one of those hard core the sidewinder is the best thing ever, facebook internetf amous divers is beneficial. Or is it?
I bet I just made sure I stay on your ignore list for my petty comments. I figured I might as well shore up your reasons.

Quoting for visibility.