Where to start??......U/W Photography

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blacknet once bubbled...
Hello,

Rarely do I step into a film vs digital debate so all the digital snapper-heads lissen up :) Slide film is about 25-30 MP's and the best digital is what? 5MP's? You do the math.

Ed

Right now the best digital is around 11MP.... but i sure as hell don't have the cash for that.

Here is how my amateur math works out...

Decent 4MP digital cam $450
Housing $250
Developing cost $0 (well maybe some for power but my computers are on all the time anyways )

Another excuse to go diving ...... Priceless :thumb:


In all seriousness though, the analog vs digital debate is very old. There is no doubt that Film being analog is going to be a "truer" representation of the real world. But the costs and efforts associated with it just doesn't make it practical (IMHO) for a lot of people. As for me I know I am not going to make a living at this and I know my pictures are not going to be the ultimate and are going to be grainier at higher sizes, but the cost and results I can get from a decent digital camera make me happy.

And btw blacknet..... your not supposed to be trolling underwater (jk) :3eye:
 
Hello,

That 20-25 MP is NON interpolated. Is the 11MP interpolated? :)

Ed
 
What kind of printer are you guys using for printing out your digital photos? I have a Canon s30 and I want to print some of them out. I tried out the HP 7350 (i think) in a shop recently and the results were pretty good.
 
blacknet once bubbled...
Hello,

That 20-25 MP is NON interpolated. Is the 11MP interpolated? :)

Ed

Howdy

Yeah I understand that slide film is non-interpolated, its the nature of an analog system.

I think the 11MP is non interpolated as well. The camera im refering to is this one.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EOS1DS/E1DSPICS.HTM

The 11.1 Mega Pixel I belive is a raw pixel count. Interpolation is only going to occur when you resize to a resolution beyond the the raw pixel count of the capture device in order to make up the missing pixels. As I understand it, it does 240 and 300 dpi nativly and there are interpolated mode to take it to 400 dpi.

Not absolutly sure and wouldnt be suprised if the 11MP is in the interpolated range, but for $8000 I would hope to hell not.

-=WonderSlug
 
Hello,

Currently the best photo printer on the market is the epson photo series. I would recomend one that will do 11x14, like the 1280 or 2200. Don't forget to calibrate your monitor and printer.

Ed
 
Hello,

Well for the 35mm it's the Kodak 14n at 14mp, good luck finding a housing for that one. In terms of raw MP's the heavy weight is the betterlight Super 8K at 80MP but that's for 4x5.

Ed
 
Like you, when I first decided to go digital I was torn about which camera to get. I think most of the posts on this subject have been dead on. Ultimately, it all boils down to how much do you want to spend, and how serious is your interest in uw photography. Here's a link about uw photo equipment/photography in general:
http://www.seapix.com/uwphoto.htm Try the tips and tricks link for a quick overview.

I think if you have a serious interest, but don't want to spend thousands on a professional system, the Olympus is a good choice. I've used the camera and was delighted by it's performance. With respect to housings, the PT015 is getting a lot of press, and most users state that they are very happy with it. I've seen some terrific pictures taken with it. Plus the Inon accessories allow you to expand the wide-angle capabilities...

Have fun taking pictures!

George
 
I've been diving with film for 8 years and usually have good results.

On a flower garden trip last year, I didn't aim my strobe quite right (100% my fault, not the equipment). So, many/most of my pictures didn't come out as well as usual. Right then, I decided to drop film and go digital. I want to know of I'm screwing up while I can still do something about it instead of after the dive trip is over.

I think 3 megapixel or above should be fine for underwater, as long as you only want 4x6 prints or online stuff. I settled on a 4 megapixel camera and external strobe. Now, I won't worry if I'm actually getting the shot or not, I'll tell within a second of taking the thing and can make any corrections at that time.

For a beginner, I think this is priceless. I know I was bummed when so many of my shots were worthless and I couldn't do anything about it.
 
Speaking on digital vs analog is never a safe thing to do. Better find me some class IV body armor. I'll just stick to some pretty established facts that mainly refer to high quality imaging:

1. A high quality digital SLR camera that can approach film quality is a massivly larger investment when compared to a 35mm SLR system. Theoretically the digital will make up the difference in the extremely long run by saving on film costs, but there are three problems that can more than negate the the film cost savings.

A. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to replace a flooded 35mm system.

B. Your super expensive digital system will become obsolete and depreciate in value as quickly as your Pentium III computer causing you to blow more dough on a new digital and maybe a new digital housing. A 35mm camera will hold its value much better for much longer and rarely needs to be replaced.

C. 35mm has film and development (and possibly printing) costs. To be truly good in presenting, editing, and printing digital images, you must purchase and calibrate an expensive monitor and printer (the printer will rapidly become obsolete too). You must purchase expensive high quality printer paper and inks. Your other option is to find a professional photography lab that will print your digital images on a fuji frontier.


2. 35mm is far less likely to run out of batteries during your dive than digital due to its lower energy needs.

3. 35mm cameras' limited maximum capacity on a single dive (usually 36 exposures) generally makes people slow down and think about their composition and exposure a bit more than a digishooter who can bang off 200 thoughtless shots in a single dive without blinking. This is the same theory of a 4x5 shooter on a hike with 10 available exposures vs a 35mm shooter on a hike with 10 rolls of 36 exposure film. Quality is better than quantity.

4. Some live aboards (Agressor for example) have E-6 labs and projectors on board, but no computer image editing stations.

5. No digital SLR can match medium format, except perhaps large format scanning backs. If you can get a LF + scanning back and a housing for under $35K I will be impressed.

6. If you have properly edited and balanced your digital images on your calibrated monitor, and then you email them or post them on the web, your work can look like **** because the people viewing the images have totally unbalanced crappy monitors. If you give a 35mm slide presentation or postal mail well done prints, they should always look right.

I'm gonna hide in a bunker now.
 
I generally try to stay out of these useless A is better than B discussions but this post brings out a few comments. These are also some pretty established facts.

1. A. It can be if you don't carry flood insurance. Which is a whole other discussion.
1. B. Basically true. But the majority of digishooters aren't using "super expensive digital systems". If/When the current model is obsolete or needs to be replaced, most digishooters are ready to upgrade anyway. Those cameras being replaced have a decent resale value to new digital users wanting to get started on a budget.
1. C. Again, basically true IF you are determined to print your own high quality photos and enlargements. The fact that we can print only those photos we want makes having them printed on the appropriate machines very affordable. It's cheaper than going to pro film developers that allow you to designate which negatives to print at a premium price, avoiding the same 'print them all, discard half' syndrome.

2. True. But I'm perfectly happy changing rechargeable batteries every 2nd dive, with power to go longer if needed. That's the same frequency I changed batteries in my film camera and strobe.

3. No doubt there are digishooters out there like that but don't lump us all together! One of the hardest things to get used to when switching to digital is that fact that you aren't limited to 24/36 exp. It took about a dozen dives before I could quit counting shots and enjoy. I still don't, how did you so eloquently put it..."bang off 200 thoughtless shots in a single dive without blinking." On average I shoot 45-50 shots per dive. Some of those are bracketted, some are just repeats because I can see in the monitor that I missed the composition I wanted or some other reason. No one argues that quality isn't better than quantity but that doesn't make quantity the bad thing you imply.

4. OTOH, some liveaboards provide computers loaded with editing software and CD burning capabilities. Most digishooters make sure they have some sort of storage device and don't depend on others to provide it.

5. Agreed. No one has claimed that the current quality of digital photos can compare to medium format medium, we aren't trying to! Again you are confusing the vast majority of digishooters here to professional photographers who have tens of thousands of dollars in LF camera equipment.

6. That's why we keep more than one copy of photos. The original stays untouched, one copy is sized and edited for the web, and a 3rd is edited for printing. It's not such a hard concept to master! I can also hook my laptop to a large screen TV and give one helluva slideshow presentation with no trouble at all.

Most of us here, and most of the digishooters that I know, are not pro photographers and don't expect to ever be. (However there are a few doing very well with 4MP systems!) We simply want the best photos available from the best systems we can afford...some are better than others. But we know that and except it. This is an old argument that all digishooters had to address first when deciding to go digital in the first place, it's a decision we have already made. Why can't you film shooters just accept that we like what we do and quit trying to tell us how wrong we are?

There's no question that everyone here has something to offer, your information about X-rays machines is very thorough and appreciated. But I hope you and Blacknet and any of the others who keep preaching about St. Ansel, the superiority of film, etc. will refrain from bringing this subject up again and understand when us digishooters ignore you. :D It's a no win situation for both sides.
 

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