If you simply dip your head forward you won't have to grab the long hose with two hands. Also, lost the snorkel. It can get in the way of donating a hose and serves no purpose underwater.
Where to put octo BP&W
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If you simply dip your head forward you won't have to grab the long hose with two hands. Also, lost the snorkel. It can get in the way of donating a hose and serves no purpose underwater.
Ayisha
Contributor
Yeah, just a slight dip, but mainly holding it at just the right spot at the bolt snap palm toward you and smoothly lifting it and clearing your head while turning your palm away from you. This puts it right side up and ready to use by someone in need.
Trace Malinowski did it exceptionally well:
seaseadee
Contributor
Apologise if this has already been said... If you decide to secure the octo to a D-Ring you can use the following method to secure a boltsnap to the hose. I tried using Octo keepers and the octo keep falling out...
OTF
Coney Island Whitefish Biologist
I'm not crazy about the boltsnap secured octo - unless perhaps the the team has a lot of experience or technical-level training. Even then it should only be a temporary clipoff. A panicking out-of-air diver should be able to grab an octo quickly. If it's clipped off they're either going to struggle to get it, or you're going to fumble with it after they grab your primary. If I went for an octo and found it clipped off I'd probably put my mouth right on it and awkwardly suckle air from the other divers chest. Nobody wants that. One of the quick-release holders works better. Or longhose config.
I haven't seen many, but I bet a strong velcro octo holder would work well.
Re: the tech config, I want to reiterate that the benefits of neat hose streamlining and fast regulator access apply to everyone even if they don't ever plan to swim single file out of a burning cave at 300 feet while dodging bullets. Check out the difference in streamlining between MaxBottomtime's gif at the top of this page and Joenill's avatar (sorry to call you out, my rig looked just like that until recently).
I haven't seen many, but I bet a strong velcro octo holder would work well.
Re: the tech config, I want to reiterate that the benefits of neat hose streamlining and fast regulator access apply to everyone even if they don't ever plan to swim single file out of a burning cave at 300 feet while dodging bullets. Check out the difference in streamlining between MaxBottomtime's gif at the top of this page and Joenill's avatar (sorry to call you out, my rig looked just like that until recently).
To be fair, his hoses are way too long and isn't indicative of the best streamlining possible with the recreational config.
I've seen divers with grossly bowing hoses in the bungeed secondary config too, which I guess comes from switching over to the system using their existing kit, changing only one hose to 7ft, and retaining the others despite being longer than ideal.
Ayisha
Contributor
Please note that a bolt snap is to secure a long hose primary regulator when it's *not in use* (ex. Out of the water or during an s-drill). A bolt snap should not be used to secure an octo. The octo needs to be accessible while diving and easy to pull out if needed.
As you can tell, there are several schools of thought, and the answer(s) may well depend on the breadth of experience of the diver, and their particular priorities in equipment configuration. There is no ONE AND ONLY ONE correct answer.
In the context of your specific question - diving a BP/W, where should you place your alternate air source - the most common answer is, on a bungee necklace. To understand the reasons for the answer, it is probably useful to consider the response in a broad context.
A diver's move to a BP/W often represents more than a mere choice of a BCD. It is part of developing a personal philosophy of diving, which include optimization of the diver's overall gear configuration. And, that optimization involves more than just what is viscerally convenient / comfortable for the diver. Going to a BP /W involves considerations that involve streamlining, that involve comfort, that involve modularity, that involve optimal weight distribution, etc., etc. A jacket BCD is safe and fully functional at a basic level. But, a BP/W configuration is also safe, and is fully functional at a basic level, and IN ADDITION, provides performance characteristics to the diver that are simply not found in most jacket BCDs.
The same diver who makes a decision to go to a BP/W also begins to consider the optimal regulator configuration. And, notwithstanding the fact that most OW students are initially trained to respond to an OOA situation in another diver by donation of an alternate air source, a growing community of divers have come to see donation of the primary air source, rather than the alternate, as superior in terms of safety and functionality. What is optimal in a 'primary donate' regulator configuration? 1) The selection of second stages that are equivalent in performance, so that BOTH the donor and recipient have a good supply of air, since both are likely to be stressed by the situation. The donor is giving up the comfortable, easy breathing primary regulator that they use for their diving. It is dysfunctional for them to go to an alternate second stage that is needlessly detuned, and of lower performance than what they just gave up; 2) placement of the donor's alternate air source such that it can be easily and IMMEDIATELY accessed by the donor after giving their primary to the OOA diver. A second stage placed on a bungee necklace is more immediately accessible to the donor that an alternate secured by one of the many (mostly useless) 'octo holders' - the donor knows exactly where it is at all times, and it can be accessed by a single hand motion (sometimes even without using a hand and simply lowering the head and grabbing it in the mouth); 3) use of hose lengths that facilitate both efficiency and convenience of donation, and provide a streamlined configuration. This is probably the 'softest' criteria, although it seems to generate (too) much of any discussion. The 'standard' regulator hose lengths - a 32 - 36" primary air source hose, and a 40" alternate air source hose, can be easily used in a 'primary donate' configuration. The diver simply uses the 40" hose for the primary second stage, and uses the shorter hose with a bungeed necklace alternate second stage. Now, doing this results in less than optimal streamlining, so divers who elect to go with a 'primary donate' option will usually adjust their hose lengths, to a longer primary hose (e.g. 60", or 84") and a shorter bungeed necklace alternate hose (e.g. 28-30"). But, the standard hose lengths cannot nonetheless be used.
Several references have been made to what divers may 'see' among other divers, and the frequency with which different configurations are 'seen'. Unfortunately, those observations may be used as an indicator of what is optimal, and that can be misleading. A BP/W is a BCD, it is not at all restricted to use in technical diving, and its growth in popularity among recreational divers has been obvious in recent years. I see more BP/Ws on recreational divers than I did a year ago, certainly many more than I did 5 years ago, and a whole lot more than I did a decade ago. I agree that I see more divers in jackets BCDs, or soft back-inflate BCDs, than I do in BP/W configurations. But, I am also seeing an evolution and changing numbers among certified divers. In addition, what a diver trains in has very little to do with what is optimal for the trainee, rather it reflects what is considered convenient, and cost-efficient for the trainer. I used to train students in rock-climbing. I wore a harness that was considered to be 'high end' (a euphemism for expensive), and it was sized to fit ME. While I could put another climber in it, the range of student sizes that could be accommodated by my harness was limited, and adjustments took time. So, I put my students in a simple, but safe and secure, web harness that could be quickly adjusted to fit a variety of climbers. It was also RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE, and I could afford to have 4-5 available for students. During training, I repeatedly told trainees that, if they wished to go on with climbing, beyond the basic course, they should get their own harness, I pointed out the advantages of what I was wearing, not as a brand / model but as a functional style.
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Bob DBF
Contributor
Primary donate has become more popular in recreational since the advent of the AIR 2 back in 1979. With all the generations of AIR 2, as well as all its clones from a variety of manufacturers, I'd bet there are more rec divers using primary donate than there are tech divers.
Haveing used both methods, as well as any configuration I have heard of since I started diving in '62, I prefer a bungeed backup if for no other reason than its closer to my mouth. I let anyone I'm diving with how I donate, and they may be supprised where my backup is located, but no one is supprised, so far, about using primary donate,
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