Where to mount the reg with a pony setup?

[spog]

I get that. I agree with you guys that a reg set is definitely high on the list.

But a genuine question (not an argument/challenge): I'm at 30m (cos I've done AOW) and I have an OOA problem (put it down to equipment failure, or human error) and my useless buddy is out of sight. Do I drop weights and hurtle to the surface? Or hope that I can fin up there before I start inhaling water? Or swim in circles in the off-chance of finding him?

The obvious answer that I know you are dying to give is that I shouldn't be in the situation. But remember I'm still relatively inexperienced and using kit that's not mine (say for example the rental SPG reads high or whatever) - so I could end up in this position. Plus, I don't have a reliable buddy to help me out.

But what should I do in that case?

My solution is a pony bottle and I don't think anyone is going to convince me otherwise. OTOH I think you guys have pushed me even further to get my own set of regs real soon now....

I hope this isn't coming off as argumentative as I do respect all the advice you guys are giving me. But I'm one of those people who loves redundancy when it comes to my own personal safety

spog

 

[Snowbear]

But remember I'm still relatively inexperienced and using kit that's not mine (say for example the rental SPG reads high or whatever) - so I could end up in this position. Plus, I don't have a reliable buddy to help me out.

I think all who have responded realize this.

But what should I do in that case?

How about - consider planning your dives to not run out of air. Since you think you might run out anyway, how about also plan to not dive deeper than you can do an ESA? Another thing you can do is talk things over with your boat buddy before you splash in and let him or her know that you are new and would appreciate it if you stick together.

My solution is a pony bottle and I don't think anyone is going to convince me otherwise.

OK. In that case I'll not even try.

If I put the pony reg on the lefthand side and the pony bottle is on the left of the main tank, isn't that going to mean that I either put it in upside down, or the hose is twisted around my chin?
If I put the pony on the right of the main tank and the reg on the left then the hose will cross over my chest and get in the way.
If I put the pony on the right and the reg on the right, that means I will have a total of 3 regs on my righthand side.

Well, you've just given ME 3 good reasons not to deal with a pony tank

 

[spog]

I

How about - consider planning your dives to not run out of air. Since you think you might run out anyway, how about also plan to not dive deeper than you can do an ESA? Another thing you can do is talk things over with your boat buddy before you splash in and let him or her know that you are new and would appreciate it if you stick together.

Hmm great thought.
Up til now I'd always planned to run out of air on my dives.

I was referring back to the other threads where far more experienced people that me had experienced OOA situations. For example the guy who's first stage got filled with debris. Or the guy who's hose got sliced through by a piece of falling sheet iron. I think that they had probably planned their dives carefully too.

What do you do in those situations?

Sit on the bottom and write your will on a slate? Or hurtle up to the surface and hope that your body is found before it's too late to perform CPR on you?

Or are you all so very trusting in your fellow man that you can literally put your life in their hands based on sharing a 30 minute boat ride together?

Guess you've been very lucky with your buddies

spog

 

[Hoppy]

Or are you all so very trusting in your fellow man that you can literally put your life in their hands based on sharing a 30 minute boat ride together?

Guess you've been very lucky with your buddies

spog

You probably need to know that a lot (all?) of the responses have been from very experienced divers. Yes they do put thier lives in the hands of the people they dive with.

IMHO you should recognise that his air is your pony if you need it. Having planned the dive on thirds of course haven't you ?

Develop the buddy skills, find a club near you maybe and get some good buddys ?

If not stick to the DM (although that might not be good given some DM's I've seen) who I assume is in the water with you ?

I went through this whole Pony for safety thing myself when I was "allowed" to do 30m, I came to the conclusion that independant twins (dbls) was a far better solution and not much difference in price.

Still only need two regs, neater, better balanced in the water, and I get more gas !

I would really think it through mate before I went the route you're going.

Just my 2 pennies worth, discard at your pleasure.

Hoppy

 

[Snowbear]

What do you do in those situations?

How deep are you diving? If you have no buddy (planned or unplanned), you should reconsider diving deeper than you can safely perform an ESA.

The likelihood a piece of sheet metal will fall from above on a recreational dive are pretty slim, doncha think? If you have and keep maintained your own set of regs, the liklihood of failure is lessened as well. Can it happen? Sure, anything can happen. How are you going to prov
No sarcasm was intended, sprog. I realize life and it's recreational activities have hazards - I'm just asking you to think about why you want to add a piece of gear that:

1 - increases points of entanglement that you cannot free if you don't have a buddy
2 - admittedly increases the # of hoses you need to manage
3 - increases your task loading in any emergency
4 - is just as likely to fail as your primary air supply (are you sure you turned it on? Does it have an extra guage? If not, are you sure it's full?
5 - increases your maintenance costs
6 - costs nearly as much to buy as a good set of regulators
7 - increases your drag

But as you said, you have made up your mind and no-one is going to change it.

You wanted to know how to route the hose. In the days I carried a pony buddy, I figured out how to do that, but I had my own regs and fixed it so I didn't have extra hoses and regs to manage. As the others have said - that will quite difficult if you're using rental gear.

Eventually I chose to listen to what both sides of the debate were saying, rather than just what I wanted to hear. For me, that pony now only gets ridden as a deco bottle and is managed and carried as such.

 

[Boogie711]

To me, I REALLY don't understand the logic.

Cost of one pony bottle - (Approximate)...
Tank and valve = $150
regulator = $225
SPG = $50

Total =$425

Cost of one high quality regulator set (Approximate)...
Reg with octo = $300
SPG = $50

Total - $350.

But, Spog, I think you're hell bent on getting a pony anyway, right? So why did you even bother posting?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree with Hoppy on the independent doubles versus pony issue. The depth range where a pony is really useful (too deep for an ESA and above the depth where it offers inadequate air) is pretty narrow and I did not dive a pony for very long.

I also think it makes more sense to invest in your own reg than to buy a pony. A well maintained reg is very reliable. In about 1600 dives under a variety of demanding conditions I have never had a reg stop delivering air. In the two times when I have had a serious problem with a reg, the reg freeflowed but still delivered air for long enough for a diver to make an ascent from the current recommended recreational depth of 100'.

A reg will fail in the freeflow mode 99.9% of the time. It is virtually unheard of for a reg to stop delivering air unless the second stage lever freezes or is obstructed - and then you still have an octo with which to end the dive.

Running out of air is a potential risk but one that is also 100% preventable with proper planning and monitoring. (The rare exception being large pieces of sheet metal falling from the sky - which is not something I worry about)

Without proper air management a pony just becomes a crutch and will not neccesarily provide you with the saftey that you think it does. The valves on pony tanks get left off or the tank gets unknowingly dove when nearly empty far more often than primary regs fail during a dive.

 

[hex92]

Spog: unlike most people on this thread I think pony bottles are useful and I dive with one. Mainly because I have had difficulties finding buddies who are willing to do the amount of diving I do. So I get paired with random boat folks.

That said, my first big purchase was my BC (Dive Rite Transpac w/ Rec Wings). Next I bought my wetsuit and then my regs and computer. A couple of years later I bought my pony bottle and upgraded my regs (old reg went on the bottle).

I use an AirII (I'm not DIR) so I only have 2 regs on my right side. I can understand why you want the pony bottle, but I have to agree that you seem to be putting the cart in front of the horse.

That said if you really want the pony, use surgical tubing to bungy the pony reg against the tank in a way that you can reach it with your right hand. Probably should position it with the 2nd stage is sitting at the lower right. This setup will probably require a longer hose on that reg.

 

[njrn2]

Three regs floating around would confuse the hell out of me.

That said, here is my 2cents.

I am going to purchase a FULL set of euipment: BC, Reg, Computer, pretty much everything that I need to dive. Accesories and everything. I have been looking into that pony idea because almost everybody I know who dives either dives double, seperates (leaving the first tank at 500psi for an emergency) or uses a 19 or 30cu pony set up as a double. Even with planning and caution, accidents can happen. Just because you take care of your equipment doesn't mean that your buddy does.

The thought process for the 30cu pony for me is for two reasons:
1.) To keep an independant air source incase you need to ascend with your buddy.
2.) I may want to dive with doubles after gaining some more experience.

Still not sure exactly if I am going to purchase a setup, just thinking it through. The cost is not going to be that much more: LDS has combo including everything for about $350 (starting price before any negotiation and/or discount for package). An spg for a pony is around $40 on LP. However, being that I am looking into getting an analog depth gauge incase my computer fails (I beleive many people on this board recommend a backup for pretty much anything, esp. computers) they tend to run around $70. I started to look into a combo (LP has a combo SPG and Depth for $99). So, I estimate it to be $300 added to my package through the LDS. The combo Depth and SPG can be used if I decide to go doubles in the future.

As for diving with the pony bottle near empty that is rediculous. Why not just dive without checking any of your equipment.

So, veterans, can you help a new guy out? Any reccommendations? Comments welcome.

Thanks.

-Joe

 

[LUBOLD8431]

You know what, just get a spare air instead of the pony...
Yeah, that'll work...