Where the buck stops...

[Teamcasa]

Giving aid to a OOA diver is one thing, offering air to an panicked OOA diver is a whole different issue.
As Vayu said:

…Unfortunately underwater things can happen quickly. It is likely that you will not have a chance to evaluate a diver before you see their signals. The choice must be made for life.

And jbd said:

Even professional rescue people don't take unnecessary risk in saving someone.

However, most of us are not professional rescue people. We need to evaluate am emergency situation quickly and decide in a second if we are able and capable of saving a life. I would suspect that if we were the one’s suddenly OOA at say 80-90 fsw, we would hope our buddy or someone else near by would help.

Like stevead, I too am freakishly strong and not prone to panic. If I observed a panicked, OOA diver, I would like to believe I would render assistance provided It would not endanger my own buddy’s (usually my lovely bride) life.

The saving of another’s life is on the top of my “The things I live by.” list. For me, the maybes, couldbes, shouldbes would just be an excuse to make me feel better about letting someone I could have saved, die.

Dave

 

[Twiddles]

Again the conditions are being placed that do not yet exist. A diver has approached you and signaled out of air per the article, you refuse because you a)dont know him b)dont accept he is in total control c)dont know if he is panicky enough to present a risk to you. Because you dont know A-C you choose to decide if he lives or dies. You JUSTIFY this decision by using A-C to determine if you will help, you are ASSUMING A-C MAY present a risk to you. In short by assigning a risk to something you have removed your responsibility to be a human being. Hey, I cant help, it could kill me......

In the above example you know the fire is a risk to you and you are asking how much you are willing to endure to perform a rescue.

 

[Meng_Tze]

In the above example you know the fire is a risk to you and you are asking how much you are willing to endure to perform a rescue.

Any and all diving emergency is a risk.............either to yourself, the other, or both. It has to do with the fact that it is a hostile environment to human beings (just like fire you are asked to see how far you would go.).

I am not going to sit there and try to assess if this situation is a risky one. I know it is. I will help, but if the diver makes a polaris or depth charge manouvre that I, he/she or both can not control...... I am cutting loose. As long as the situation is semi-controlled and I feel I can manage.. we will make the utmost best efforts we humanly can to get out. If not, I am NOT going to be come a victim.

 

[jonesbf]

I took EFR and Rescue last year. I learned a lot of skills that would help me to rescue someone relatively safely under many different circumstances (including panic). However, I was taught in both classes to evaluate the situation before taking any action. Creating a second victim does not help anyone and may cause more people to risk/lose their lives.

 

[theatis]

Twiddles, even though i don't necessarily agree with the editor his usage of the 'buck-passing' term is not wrong. It is not directed at Marty but at the distressed diver, or rather at the hypothetical distressed diver who could be any of us, arguing that we should take responsibility instead of "relegat[ing] all of the responsibility for their safety to others." And that's exactly what Harry Truman meant.

As for the issue at hand, i believe there are actually two ways of looking at it: deciding to help a distressed diver underwater (in the precious few moments that one has to decide that) and deciding to abort an attempt to assist midway if the personal risk is deemed too great.

For example, think about this scenario: you have assumed relative control of a panicking diver, approached them from behind, have a hold on them, provided gas supply to them, when the diver's panic goes over the edge, shoves you aside and bolts for the surface full speed. Meanwhile, this is at the end of a long dive before you have started to make an ascent or any kind of stop; would anyone fault you for not bolting behind the diver putting yourself at considerably elevated risk?

IMO, what makes the article seem kind of heartless is the statement "I wouldn't act unless absolutely certain"; well, you are very unlikely to ever be absolutely certain and as TSandM said, would you be able to live with yourself having done nothing?

 

[jbd]

Again the conditions are being placed that do not yet exist. A diver has approached you and signaled out of air per the article, you refuse because you a)dont know him b)dont accept he is in total control c)dont know if he is panicky enough to present a risk to you. Because you dont know A-C you choose to decide if he lives or dies. You JUSTIFY this decision by using A-C to determine if you will help, you are ASSUMING A-C MAY present a risk to you. In short by assigning a risk to something you have removed your responsibility to be a human being. Hey, I cant help, it could kill me......

Lets look at you scenario and the choices you provided. Lets start with "a)you don't know him" For me, I don't care if I know him or not. What I'm going to look at is he gave a signal of being OOA. What is his demeanor in giving that siganl as he is approaching me. If he is reasonably calm, as he should be, then yes I will respond quickly by closing the distance between us while simultaneously offering my primary and switching to my secondary. That does seem to be what happened in the article BTW. If what I see is a totally panicked out of control person, I'm probably not going to close the distance I will make the regulator switches already noted and be offering the primary as he approaches and brace myself for his attack. This is now blending into choice "b) don't accept he is in total control". If he accepts the primary and starts breathing it in a controlled manner then its time to ascend appropriately to the surface. If he attacks me out of control I will evade him and leave him to his own devices unless I feel there is a reasonable opprotunity to get control of him as steveead and teamcasa have commented on, which addresses your choice "c)" above.

I'm not making a choice in whether he lives or dies. I am making a choice on whether I live or die. Once again, no person is expected to accept undue risk to their own life to save another.

 

[driftin' by]

I didn't read the story, but the editorial sounds like the story has to do with not helping in a situation where someone went beyond normal and acceptable behavior (bone-headed).
Taken from the editorial:

Don't expect my help if you insist on being an idiot.

In those situations, like I always say- A lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part!

 

[Papa Steve]

Though I'm new to diving, I'm not new to assessing emergency situations. I have had some moderate training and real-life exposure to emergencies from my days as a law enforcement officer and my training as a private pilot.
I'm serving notice to those on the board that if I ever dive with you or with your group and you're in distress I will do my best to save you . . .no matter what the cost.
I fear I will come across as a little self-righteous here and that's not my intent. Our love, our human-ness and our sense of community implore us to serve one another. Measuring someone's level of risk or their personal relationship with me plays a part on an emotional level but people are worth saving simply because they are human.
Papa Steve

 

[Teamcasa]

Though I'm new to diving, I'm not new to assessing emergency situations. I have had some moderate training and real-life exposure to emergencies from my days as a law enforcement officer and my training as a private pilot.
I'm serving notice to those on the board that if I ever dive with you or with your group and you're in distress I will do my best to save you . . .no matter what the cost.
I fear I will come across as a little self-righteous here and that's not my intent. Our love, our human-ness and our sense of community implore us to serve one another. Measuring someone's level of risk or their personal relationship with me plays a part on an emotional level but people are worth saving simply because they are human.
Papa Steve

Well said Steve.

Dave

 

[jon m]

very nice Steve!