Where should I start to approach the rebreather world

[broncobowsher]

AKA sh-t trim. Which is one of the reasons the silt monster Revo divers get made fun of in N Fl caves. If you need to dive slightly head up to make your rebreather breathe better, that's a bad design imo
PS I agree with tbone that the speedier progression on a revo is BS

And if I don't dive Florida caves, it doesn't matter. You have to remember that people dive outside your little hole in the ground. There is more to the world than just Florida caves. My typical dives, zero issues being outside of Florida cave dive trim.

If I were to head to Florida to dive caves, I would be considering a different rebreather that was more cave oriented. But I don't do caves, so rEvo is good for me.

 

[Wibble]

AKA sh-t trim. Which is one of the reasons the silt monster Revo divers get made fun of in N Fl caves. If you need to dive slightly head up to make your rebreather breathe better, that's a bad design imo
PS I agree with tbone that the speedier progression on a revo is BS

To summarise…. Bollocks.

Flat trim is something the diver does. Crap trim is also a diver choice, albeit often through ignorance.

Revos work perfectly well in flat trim just like all major rebreathers. It’s the numpties driving them which decide to look like a sack of crap with their poor finning, trim and bailouts hanging vertically.

Back to those crappy cave diving Revo’s…. Maybe I might extrapolate that all JJ divers are crap because I once saw one looking like crap therefore all JJ divers are crap.

Didn’t someone mention here about a lousy instructor in Florida churning out crappy divers with no pride in their skills?

 

[broncobowsher]

...

Didn’t someone mention here about a lousy instructor in Florida churning out crappy divers with no pride in their skills?

I did, and got chastised for it. Never mind that they now have been convicted and are awaiting sentencing. But that is a whole different story.

Take that rEvo diver with crappy trim, crap fin techniques, crap bailout control. Put them in your cherished JJ and watch the same crap all over again. Oh, you can fix that I hear you say? You are fixing the diver so they don't do that? Wait, you are fixing the diver. The equipment isn't fixing the diver. Different training is. So it really isn't the gear, it is the training... But you are a Florida cave diver, you will forever have a grief with rEvos no matter what. It's not your fault, it is what Nestle has been sneaking into that cave water.

 

[lermontov]

AKA sh-t trim. Which is one of the reasons the silt monster Revo divers get made fun of in N Fl caves. If you need to dive slightly head up to make your rebreather breathe better, that's a bad design imo
PS I agree with tbone that the speedier progression on a revo is BS

out of curiosity have you spent more then 10 hours on a revo?

 

[lermontov]

Unless the unit is a fully manual Revo, in which the monitoring systems are both fully independent and fully redundant, nothing else is redundant from an engineering perspective. That is not up for debate, it is a fact. If you believe the scrubbers are redundant, shame on your instructor for misleading you and if you have an electronic Revo and think the electronics are redundant, shame on your instructor for misleading you because they are not.

God is not a good analogy because it is not something we can prove. What you are saying is that you perceive the earth as being flat therefor you believe the earth is flat. Unfortunately the earth is not actually flat, ergo you are not entitled to that opinion because it is a fact

I have a hybrid mini- My controller died on a dive and i finished the dive using my (then dreams) and on manual. Wouldnt you consider that redundancy ? edit- sorry i should have said now i have added a nerd

 

[tbone1004]

I have a hybrid mini- My controller died on a dive and i finished the dive using my (then dreams) and on manual. Wouldnt you consider that redundancy ? edit- sorry i should have said now i have added a nerd

Sort of, it is dissimilar redundancy though you would also have had to have a separate decompression tracking capability. The NERD would make it dissimilar redundancy where primary system is the solenoid/controller, and the backup is the NERD and leaky valve. The issue is in the intent of use of the system and the fact that there are still common components which doesn't make it truly redundant.

Is this all being incredibly pedantic? absolutely, but it's important to not the differences in what we are talking about.
Does any of this make the rebreather more or less reliable than any other unit to where it would be a purchasing decision? Obviously not since there is no one duplicating the thought process of the Revo *which would be incredibly easy to do in most rebreathers*, and to my knowledge there isn't anyone actively using the Revo for any exploration/expedition level diving. If it did make that big of a difference, we would all sell the units we are using and switch to it because it was a significant improvement in safety. If it is any improvement, it is marginal and does not offset the other drawbacks to the unit.

Look, if you gave me a Revo and said you have to use it as your primary backmount unit, I wouldn't complain. I wouldn't use it in its stock configuration because I think 5-cells is ludicrous, and I would bitch about it because it won't dive in flat trim in a wetsuit, but it's a perfectly suitable unit for 99% of the rebreather diving out there. Same thing that happens when I have to dive APD's, I would never choose the unit, but I have no issue when I have to dive it. If you're happy with your unit, that is literally all that matters. I take issue when people try to make their units out to be Gods gift to SCUBA when it isn't though. This thread devolved because someone brought up the superiority of 5-cells and how it's cheaper to use more of something than it is to use less of something *still curious about that logic, but whatever*, but if they came in and said that the Meg is superior to everything else because blah blah blah *I'd point out the PITA of the non-standard loop direction and the non-standard loop hoses combined with the awful latches* or the Fathom is the best thing since sliced bread and is flawless *point out that getting the head off when the weedwhacker line is swollen from salt water*, or the JJ *cave grit in the head, even with the shield*, etc. They're all flawed in their own ways and they all have design compromises made based on the designers priorities. This one just happened to be the Revo and for some reason that crowd tends to be the most vocal about their unit, probably because it is so different from anything else and they feel they need to justify it or they injected Paul's Koolaid with the fervor of new Fundies graduates from GUE.

 

[lermontov]

Sort of, it is dissimilar redundancy though you would also have had to have a separate decompression tracking capability. The NERD would make it dissimilar redundancy where primary system is the solenoid/controller, and the backup is the NERD and leaky valve. The issue is in the intent of use of the system and the fact that there are still common components which doesn't make it truly redundant.

Is this all being incredibly pedantic? absolutely, but it's important to not the differences in what we are talking about.
Does any of this make the rebreather more or less reliable than any other unit to where it would be a purchasing decision? Obviously not since there is no one duplicating the thought process of the Revo *which would be incredibly easy to do in most rebreathers*, and to my knowledge there isn't anyone actively using the Revo for any exploration/expedition level diving. If it did make that big of a difference, we would all sell the units we are using and switch to it because it was a significant improvement in safety. If it is any improvement, it is marginal and does not offset the other drawbacks to the unit.

Look, if you gave me a Revo and said you have to use it as your primary backmount unit, I wouldn't complain. I wouldn't use it in its stock configuration because I think 5-cells is ludicrous, and I would bitch about it because it won't dive in flat trim in a wetsuit, but it's a perfectly suitable unit for 99% of the rebreather diving out there. Same thing that happens when I have to dive APD's, I would never choose the unit, but I have no issue when I have to dive it. If you're happy with your unit, that is literally all that matters. I take issue when people try to make their units out to be Gods gift to SCUBA when it isn't though. This thread devolved because someone brought up the superiority of 5-cells and how it's cheaper to use more of something than it is to use less of something *still curious about that logic, but whatever*, but if they came in and said that the Meg is superior to everything else because blah blah blah *I'd point out the PITA of the non-standard loop direction and the non-standard loop hoses combined with the awful latches* or the Fathom is the best thing since sliced bread and is flawless *point out that getting the head off when the weedwhacker line is swollen from salt water*, or the JJ *cave grit in the head, even with the shield*, etc. They're all flawed in their own ways and they all have design compromises made based on the designers priorities. This one just happened to be the Revo and for some reason that crowd tends to be the most vocal about their unit, probably because it is so different from anything else and they feel they need to justify it or they injected Paul's Koolaid with the fervor of new Fundies graduates from GUE.

lol Im glad you got that off your chest

yes i agree you need a second decompression monitor as a 'standard' set up to call it redundant in that sense.
I havent really dived on other breathers (other than try dives -dont think that counts) so its hard to compare but i think in any ccr the key is to know its limitations and plan /set up accordingly

 

[rddvet]

And if I don't dive Florida caves, it doesn't matter. You have to remember that people dive outside your little hole in the ground. There is more to the world than just Florida caves. My typical dives, zero issues being outside of Florida cave dive trim.

If I were to head to Florida to dive caves, I would be considering a different rebreather that was more cave oriented. But I don't do caves, so rEvo is good for me.

Crap trim is crap trim. When I dive in the ocean I don't suddenly dive in crap trim cause I'm in the ocean. Practice good skills no matter where you are.
PS You Revo kids are easy to rev up

 

[rddvet]

To summarise…. Bollocks.

Flat trim is something the diver does. Crap trim is also a diver choice, albeit often through ignorance.

Revos work perfectly well in flat trim just like all major rebreathers. It’s the numpties driving them which decide to look like a sack of crap with their poor finning, trim and bailouts hanging vertically.

Back to those crappy cave diving Revo’s…. Maybe I might extrapolate that all JJ divers are crap because I once saw one looking like crap therefore all JJ divers are crap.

Didn’t someone mention here about a lousy instructor in Florida churning out crappy divers with no pride in their skills?

I agree with your sentiment. But I have heard so many revo divers claim the unit wants to be dove slightly head up out of trim.
As for the it was a lousy instructor creating lousy revo divers in Fl, we discussed that earlier. Most people that draw attention to themselves on revos here weren't trained here. They're vacation divers.
And yes, it's a generalization. When I first started cave diving 10+ years ago I was told semi-jokingly "watch out for guys on Revos". Sadly, I quickly learned why that joke was made, and years later people diving them in the caves here haven't helped that stereotype. That's all it is is a stereotype based on some truth.
Do I think all Revo divers are crap divers with no trim or skills. no. Do I think it's super easy to get revo fan boys revved up (see what I did there), yes.

 

[Wibble]

Sort of, it is dissimilar redundancy though you would also have had to have a separate decompression tracking capability. The NERD would make it dissimilar redundancy where primary system is the solenoid/controller, and the backup is the NERD and leaky valve. The issue is in the intent of use of the system and the fact that there are still common components which doesn't make it truly redundant.

Is this all being incredibly pedantic? absolutely, but it's important to not the differences in what we are talking about.
Does any of this make the rebreather more or less reliable than any other unit to where it would be a purchasing decision? Obviously not since there is no one duplicating the thought process of the Revo *which would be incredibly easy to do in most rebreathers*, and to my knowledge there isn't anyone actively using the Revo for any exploration/expedition level diving. If it did make that big of a difference, we would all sell the units we are using and switch to it because it was a significant improvement in safety. If it is any improvement, it is marginal and does not offset the other drawbacks to the unit.

Look, if you gave me a Revo and said you have to use it as your primary backmount unit, I wouldn't complain. I wouldn't use it in its stock configuration because I think 5-cells is ludicrous, and I would bitch about it because it won't dive in flat trim in a wetsuit, but it's a perfectly suitable unit for 99% of the rebreather diving out there. Same thing that happens when I have to dive APD's, I would never choose the unit, but I have no issue when I have to dive it. If you're happy with your unit, that is literally all that matters. I take issue when people try to make their units out to be Gods gift to SCUBA when it isn't though. This thread devolved because someone brought up the superiority of 5-cells and how it's cheaper to use more of something than it is to use less of something *still curious about that logic, but whatever*, but if they came in and said that the Meg is superior to everything else because blah blah blah *I'd point out the PITA of the non-standard loop direction and the non-standard loop hoses combined with the awful latches* or the Fathom is the best thing since sliced bread and is flawless *point out that getting the head off when the weedwhacker line is swollen from salt water*, or the JJ *cave grit in the head, even with the shield*, etc. They're all flawed in their own ways and they all have design compromises made based on the designers priorities. This one just happened to be the Revo and for some reason that crowd tends to be the most vocal about their unit, probably because it is so different from anything else and they feel they need to justify it or they injected Paul's Koolaid with the fervor of new Fundies graduates from GUE.

The reason that some of us are defending the Revo is simply that it appears to be attacked for no good reason.
Five cells, some of us are completely happy with that, others aren’t. Who cares.
It has a unique scrubber configuration that reduces scrubber usage which some of us value, others don’t. Who cares.
It has scrubber monitoring which some of us value, others don’t. Who cares.
Dual separate electronics which some of us value, others don’t. Who cares.
Enclosed lungs… leaky valve… single injection block…. Who cares.

Swap the Revo for a JJ, Inspo, Kiss….

No thanks.


But yes, too quick to rise to the bait. Well done.