When you are diving with ditchable weights ...

[cmburch]

Whatever works. I like reading threads and customizing my gear for comfort and safety. I picked up info on weight belts from TSandM and DumpsterDiver for optimizing my gear. I have never had an interest in adding weight to my Rig due to the cost, added Rig weight and lack of versatility.

I'll stick with a weight belt. Somewhat heavy. Some use 25-30lb weight belts in my area. I think I am down to 18lb weight belt with SS BP on SCUBA. For freediving, 12lb belt with 7lb freedive vest. I use rubber Marseilles and nylon/rubber DumpsterDiver style belts.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I always look at these discussions of rubber belts and special buckles with interest . . . but the problem is that, since I went to metal instead of plastic buckles, I have never had my plain old webbing weight belt come loose or even come close, so it's hard to muster the motivation to spend money on a better mousetrap.

Typical plastic weight belt buckles are prone to problems and I consider them dangerous for using with more than few pounds of lead. I'm about as cheap as anyone I know, but will spend the extra money for a metal weightbelt buckle.

Might your satisfaction with nylon belts be associated with your use of a dry suit and very thin wetsuits in tropical waters? From what I understand, both these types of exposure suits experience little or no suit compression with depth, thus the need for elasticity and automatic depth compensation is minimal.

However, for divers who wear any considerable amount of compressible neoprene wetsuit, the depth compensation capability of a rubber belt represent a major advantage.

Also, you appear to be thin and "have a waist". So many scuba divers are "round" which makes it nearly impossible to get a non elastic, nylon belt to comfortably and securely stay around their mid-section. The prevelance of this body type is closely tied with the popularity of BC integrated weight systems I think.

Elastic, rubber belts that "stick" to a diver and do not shift (or easily fall down) are much more practical for the typical "American" mid-section.

 

[TSandM]

DD, that could well be. I have never dived more than 5 mils of neoprene, and I do have a waist, even though the Fusion makes it look otherwise

 

[Akimbo]

What I'm looking for in a buckle is a single handed, single motion release. The Marseille buckle does not provide me with that, Mark's buckle and the wire bail buckle do...

Perhaps I am missing something. I wish Mark's buckle had a product name. Anyway, both require three steps: grabbing a flopping end, pulling right or left, and releasing the grasp. I don’t understand how it is different. It can be argued that a cam buckle only requires two, hook with fingers and pull. However I doubt timed tests would produce repeatable differences between all three longer than ¼ of a second.

For those who have not seen either buckle, The Marseille buckle is basically a typical Men's belt buckle on steroids. Mark's buckle is an elegantly executed 2" wide hook and loop. Unfortunately, there are no decent photos available on the Web. Tension is increased by pulling a tail on the loop end and the belt is released by pulling a tail on the hook end. A knob of sorts is provided for one end so they are easily distinguished by feel.

Here is my assessment of the characteristics of both:
Mark's design adjusts tighter very easily in the water with one hand, the Marseille is a two-handed task and will be lost if it slips from the hand, but a rubber belt makes the need to tighten unlikely.

You can easily tighten either belt much tighter than a Scuba cam buckle.

A downside of Mark's buckle is it is injection molded plastic and can be damaged by dropping a belt where a hip weight happens to land on the hook end on a hard deck. I believe it is glass-filled material and is very tough, but still plastic. Most Marseille bucks are made from 8mm (5/16") stainless steel round stock. Dropping would damage the rubber belt before the buckle.

Mark's buckle attaches to both ends and makes it impossible for individual weights to slide off the belt, unlike the Marseille. This makes adding or subtracting weights easier on a Marseille buckle, which is a big deal for freedivers so they can adjust for their current operating depth, not such a factor in Scuba.

A webbing belt will take more weight than a rubber belt that tends to stretch out too much above about 25 Lbs. However, there is no stretch so it can’t be worn nearly as low on the hip, if that is desirable in your situation.

I have heard a complaint from a dive shop about Mark's buckle that customers have trouble figuring out how to assemble them and there are no instructions at all.

I do not believe that either will accidentally release and both are easily released in an emergency, probably easier than a cam buckle. All three need some minimal trial to get used to.

It is interesting that we still have not found the universally acceptable buckle after all these years. I encourage people to look at both. IMHO, they are a significant improvement over metal or plastic cam Scuba buckles. Perhaps Thal can expand or correct this review.

 

[Thalassamania]

I think your write up is perfectly clear ... but then I have prior knowledge of what you are describing. My only problem with the Marseille buckle was that once, when I went to release it, the pin would not come out of the eye and it took two hands. That may not be the "normal" situation, but I can see it happening again in an emergency. Your are correct that changing weight on Mark's buckle can be a pain, I have one of his buckles on a pouch belt and use lead shot.

 

[Akimbo]

…My only problem with the Marseille buckle was that once, when I went to release it, the pin would not come out of the eye and it took two hands...

In that case, everyone should be forewarned to test whatever belt they might choose. I have only used the Rob Allen and Mako belts personally and did not encounter that issue. I did notice a post on Spearboard from a guy who discovered a source for a Marseille-style buckle in stainless for under $4 if anyone is interested.

DIY Neoprene Weight Belt - Spearboard Spearfishing Community

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think your write up is perfectly clear ... but then I have prior knowledge of what you are describing. My only problem with the Marseille buckle was that once, when I went to release it, the pin would not come out of the eye and it took two hands. That may not be the "normal" situation, but I can see it happening again in an emergency. Your are correct that changing weight on Mark's buckle can be a pain, I have one of his buckles on a pouch belt and use lead shot.

That should never happen. Possibly the belt was not assembled properly. The rubber needs to be bolted/riveted.affixed to the buckle so that there is a natural spring action on the pin. This is absolutely critical. If a belt does not exhibit this property (when under any tension) then it is defective.

For scuba, where ditching a belt instantly is not near as important as for a freediver, I have slipped a loop section of bike inner tube over the buckle and this forms a belt loop which secures the loose end of the belt. It makes for a super clean configuration, but will take an extra moment to release. I did this on a back plate where I rigged the Marseille belt as a waist strap. I wouln't use a belt loop for freediving.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

....Mark's buckle attaches to both ends and makes it impossible for individual weights to slide off the belt, unlike the Marseille. This makes adding or subtracting weights easier on a Marseille buckle, which is a big deal for freedivers so they can adjust for their current operating depth, not such a factor in Scuba.
.

The inability to easily slide a weight off and onto the belt is also a problem with the wire bail type of buckle. However, there is a solution:

Slotted weights, which were not unusual 30 years ago (when the wire bail buckle was common).

Mako Speatguns sells these slotted weights (Shaped like the letter "I") in 2 lb size, which allows adjustment of weight without moving other fixed weights or the buckle(s). I find this (retro) design very useful.


I suppose they would be neat way to add non-ditchable lead to BP/W harness, if someone needed to fine tune the harness or was switching to different type of tank etc.

MAKO Spearguns - 2 Pound "I" Weight

 

[Thalassamania]

Slotted weights are a great solution, but once you learn how to manipulate the buckle it's really pretty easy to change standard weights.

 

[Akimbo]

… I have slipped a loop section of bike inner tube over the buckle and this forms a belt loop which secures the loose end of the belt. It makes for a super clean configuration, but will take an extra moment to release. I did this on a back plate where I rigged the Marseille belt as a waist strap. I wouln't use a belt loop for freediving.

The inability to easily slide a weight off and onto the belt is also a problem with the wire bail type of buckle. However, there is a solution…

I get around the problem in two ways. For freediving I installed a webbing mounted D-ring on both sides on my rubber belt. They are held on with a bolt through the inside of the loop and the belt only so the wild-end of the rubber belt end tucks in without tension. This keeps weights from sliding off and interfering with the buckle, in addition to giving me two low profile D-rings.

This is a configuration that I am used to on my commercial belt pictured above which I use for Scuba and surface supplied. On both belts I have 10 Kg/22 Lbs of weight. That happens to be where I am neutral at 33' in a 7mm two-piece freediving wetsuit.

I decided that I never need to drop more weight than that, and often need more. I attach weights in pockets on my cylinder bands and use a weight vest for freediving when my deepest depth will be less than 33'. I find it also gives me better trim and weight changes are really easy.