When should you flunk a student

[Buddha44]

I wouldn't blame the agency. The agency isn't forcing any instructor to take on such a student. It's the instructor's own responsibility and often times these highly challenging students can't be certified at all without "bending the rules" (read making standards violations).

In fact it isn't uncommon for aquaphobics to look to scubadiving as a way to confront their problem, just like people who are afraid of heights somehow find skydiving interesting.....

This might come as some surprise but teaching such a student to dive isn't much fun for the student or for the instructor. The only cases I've seen at the shop where I assist have been weeded out by the intro. We don't teach them. We suggest they take swimming lessons first and come back when they're feeling more comfortable.

R..

I was recently certified and throughout the certification process I kept wondering if I would be able to handle all the new things I was learning. For a newbie, like me it is especially difficult to know whether we have achieved the minimal competency so that we do not endanger ourselves, buddies and the environment.

In my case, I did well on the test and study questions because I kept rereading the material until I understood it. But the first time we actually handled the EQ (other than what we purchased initially) was at the pool. I probably made every mistake known to man while we were going through the equipment check. But my instructors (SSI) were very patient and helped each one of us and explained our errors. I am glad that I made those mistakes. By the time I did my OW dive, I felt more comfortable with the EQ than I would have otherwise.

On my OW dive (Dutch Springs, PA), I was apprehensive about buoyancy control. There were only two of us but when one student was getting tired, the instructor sat down with her, talked it over and nudged her into calling it a day. You can tell she felt very relieved. He said she could come as many times as she wanted (both pool and OW) until she felt comfortable without any additional cost. He then dived with me so I had solo training for the rest of the afternoon. I passed my hovering and was able to stay near the required depth through most of the other tasks but when I was doing my compass navigation, I shot up from 20ffw up to the surface like a bullet. Clearly I can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time.

I was apprehensive about doing my first ocean dive in Cancun because I had heard so much about the cattle dives. After reading on this board about different operators, I ended up at Solo Buceo (they were great!). I was fortunate that there were two DMs -- one for an experienced group of four and one for two new divers (including me). I was surprised (with additional advice from the DM throughout the dive) that I was better at buoyancy control and was able to alter depth (50 ft) mostly through controlled breathing.

I can say that every step I took I felt both apprehensive and exhilirated. I was fearful that I understood nothing and then surprised when I succeeded in accomplishing a task. The fear wasn't from fear of water or drowning or the lack of instruction -- it was the fear of not knowing if I was doing it right or by accident. And then the fear would ease into joy when I could repeat it and realize that I did have some minimal control over it. I am probably the text book example of a person who should not have passed because of the ineptitude I showed throughout my training. But I passed because at the end of the day when we were tested, I had retained some of those minimal skills.

Did I feel "comfortable", have "mastery", or feel I could dive with my niece and be in charge? No way! Under those standards, I probably would have to do the OW dive another 20 to 30 times to be comfortable and much more to feel that I have mastery or feel I can safely dive with my niece.

The scary thing is that even though I am a newbie, the moment I am in the water, I am responsible for myself and my buddy and if a true emergency occurred, I do not know if I could handle it. The only thing I can control is to take baby steps and dive in circumstances and depths I think I can handle. The best thing is that I didn't know if I would find buddies and I ended up making friends. I'm glad at age 44 I decided to take the plunge and experience a whole new world.

Dive safely

 

[FreeFloat]

Buddha44,

I applaud you for recognizing your own limitations and making the effort to work on the areas that you've identified as needing improvement. Too many divers take "big steps" waaaay beyond their comfort level and end up in scary or tragic situations.

Keep up the good work and remember it's all about comfort level - after all if it's not Fun why are you doing it??

 

[Buddha44]

Thanks, FreeFloat. Reading the forums has been a great learning experience as well. It has helped me to better define my limitations. I think many of us Newbies are also torn between practicing and learning and not being a nuisance to the more experienced divers. Fortunately, in the very few dives I have had, everyone was very helpful and understanding.

 

[baltimoron]

i completely agree with buddha on the problem with trying to find the balance between learning something new and not trying to be a problem to the more experienced gung ho divers.

it seems to me you really cant get better at scuba like you can get better at soccer or other sports. it solely is an experience thing. you can take classes and such, but what is the use of classes if you dont have experience? so maybe before you needed more dives in order to get certified but- its just simply not like that anymore. everyone has to make mistakes in order to get better, god forbid they are not life threataning ones. i hope when i get out there for my first post-certification dives that the more experienced divers will be patient with me, beacuse somebody was patient with them when they first got out into the water.

am i making sense here? hahah feel free to push me back into my little corner.

 

[ScubaJW]

Last year when I took my OW test, there were a couple kids (and I do mean kids...10-13 yrs old) who could not do a couple of the required tests...mainly the BC and the weight belt removal and replacement. Yet, the instructor passed these kids and they are now junior OW divers. At what point do you say enough is enough and fail these people. Yes they paid their money, but they are risking their lives and the lives of whoever they dive with. I'm sorry, but to me, this is not the way to do things. Don't get me wrong, the intructors were excellent and they and the divemasters went above and beyond the call to assist people. But when do you hand out the "F". Just curious as to your opinions.

Scuba_Frog,

I just got certified in June of 2004 - weight belts removal and replacement is easy but very difficult to hold them because they are wayyy tooo heavy for me to hold it steady. That may happen to that children. So good thing that they are required to have an adult to go diving along with them. I am not too concerned about that part.

-wildmtn

 

[scuba_frog]

Buddha I am with you 100%. I too got my C-Card last fall at 44 and went diving in Aruba in Dec. During my OW test I pretty much new what I could and could not do and what I was a little nervous about. And in Aruba, my dive buddy was a resue diver from some State Police Dept. He was great and had incredible patience with me...yes I did tell him beforehand that this was my first "real" dive. We dove 2 wrecks with very little trouble. I've had only 2 dives so far this summer, but with each one, things go better and better.

Baltimoron you're right, like anything else, practice makes perfect.

Wildmtn - you are correct, the weight belt was strictly a strength issue. I'm a big guy and had 28 lbs around my waist and I had a heck of a time with the weight belt. That's what integrated systems are for...lol.

 

[TwoTanks]

I believe that almost everyone can learn to dive (recreationally) and that the only people who should be flunked are those with a bad attitude or physically unable to do the dives or skills.

I do not believe that anyone who is not ready should be passed.

Anyone who is having difficulty should have extre classes until they learn the skills. If someone is too young and can't do the math or lift the gear, they should be told to come back in 6 months at no charge. Too many people (I'm sure) get discouraged and give up, never to come back and try again.

As a divemaster I would see students who did not pass one class come back and take the classes again. After all, if you are having a class anyway, there is very little cost (to the LDS) to include one additional student, and that student will be well aware that you went the extra mile for them.

Just my opinion and experience

TT

 

[baltimoron]

i dont think they who dont pass the OW (and i mean the 5 or six dives) shoul dhave to take the WHOLE class over- maybe the pool classes, but not the class sessions unless they failed the written exam. i dunno how people fail the written exam- i guess people just dont really read the books.

 

[garyfotodiver]

Baltimoron you're right, like anything else, practice makes perfect.

Sorry, practice makes CONSISTENT! If you are taught something that is wrong and continue to practice it, you will still do the wrong thing, albeit the same way each time.

IMHO, there are too many people taking diving instruction who do not understand the fundamentals before they worry about how deep or how long or what class to take next.

I wrote earlier that, when my daughter failed her written test, I stood with the instructor, although I was not pleased with some things he taught. The kid studued some more and passed the test the next time. She learned a very important lesson about diving and about life.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I took a rescue class with a 17 year old 'punk' who thought that since he had taken the course 2 times before he shouldn't have to do any of the work again. And he smoked pot, didn't care, didn't try, didn't do some of the skills right....not sure that I would have passed him.