When should you flunk a student

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I like to teach kids more than adults sometimes. I do meet with the kids before hand and talk with them and the parents telling them what is expected of them and I will send them home if it is not done. I think I need to start doing that with adults more, as they are the ones who dont do the work most of the time. I think kids are much easier to teach they arent scared of anything yet.
 
A lot of very good replies. At the begining of the class I explain that there will be three major evaluations done. One is the written exam. Two is the final pool session and three is the OW cert dives. I explain to them that each evaluation determines whether they proceed to the next step or not. I explain that there is extra pool time available if they don't have the skills down pat. If we use the extra pool time it is focused on the skill(s) that need work.

If they don't do well during the OW cert dives then we do more dives until I feel confident they have masterd the skills and the ability to dive.
 
Anyone who can't complete ALL of the skills should be flunked.

Some instructors may be willing to spend more time with a student, but still if they can't complete any one of the skills they should flunk. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case these days. Pay for certifications.

I got certified when I was 13 back in 1987. My Dad was doing the class with me. He couldn't clear his mask, and was failed. With more practice he a year later went thru the process again and was then able to complete all his skills and passed.
 
My only concern is with children diving ,is maturity level. Just because they can complete skills doesnt mean they are mentally mature. Anyone like myself with children (8 and 18) can vouch even teenage years ( or older) doesnt guarantee maturity and I question how they will make life or death decisions if faced.

**Flame suit on **
 
To be fair to all the younger divers. I have also seen 12 and 13yrs olds. More alert and safe than some adults... But it all depends on the teen....

Good things should be free......Let's go Diving.................................
 
Back to the original question.

If the student can not pass the requirements of the class - they should not pass - they should get more practice time (even if there is an extra charge) to build confidence.
 
Thanks to all who responded. I was 44 when I got certified. Those kids I mentioned, the whole family took the course together. The parents were so so with their skills, but they were able to perform them. The kids freaked every time water entered their mask, etc. I think there are 2 thigs to consider here...one is the safety factor which I mentioed...second, what about the instructors liablility to the club/shop/facility hosting the class. IMO, if someone...anyone...who passes but is not "qualified", what LEGAL liability is on the instructor if something happens to this person when they do their first dive. My son started the class with me but did not want to put the effort into the tests. I would not let him continue the class. I did not want my son/future dive buddy to be nonchalant about safety and possibly risk his life and mine while on a dive. Problem I see is that the parents in the group I mentioned were short sighted. They were more interested in getting that C-Card for their Bahama vacation than the safety aspect of diving. Talk about mixed up set of priorities!!!
 
Years ago, when I was actively working with the Boy Scouts of America in a council position, I faced a similar situation. A scout was working toward his Eagle Scout rank with only his life saving merit badge still required for completion of the requirements.

The scout came to camp that summer with full expectations of completing the requirements for his Eagle Scout award. Unfortunately, he could not meet the requirements set forth in the merit badge pamphlet. He tried numerous times during the course of the week to meet the requirements, each without success.

At the end of camp the camp director came to me and suggested that, because the boy's father was a high ranking officer at a local Air Force base and that the council received generous donations from the facility, that I "go a little easier on the boy" in order to allow him to meet his Eagle Scout requirements thereby appeasing his father and others.

I refused. Needless to say, there were some discussions regarding my intractible positon in the matter.

I learned later that after summer camp was over the young man went to the local YMCA where he passed all of his requirements with glowing facility.

To get to the point, I think many potential divers feel that they have "paid for the certification". The prospects don't grasp the fact that they have paid only to be instructed in the requirements, knowledge, and procedures to be certified as a diver after showing that they are capable of performing the requirements to the level set forth by the certifying agency.

I would have a very difficult time, ethically, working for a dive shop that "urged" that all students pass the certification requirements.
 
You should fail a student when they can't complete the required skills and/or pass the required tests. You did pay for the course, however that doesn't justify you passing if you can't complete the skills.

You pay for college, does that automaticly get you a degree?

I paid for EMT school and passed. If I didn't pass would you really want me to have an EMT license and be the one coming to help YOU? All of these divers end up being someones buddy which is a two way system. Either person could run into trouble and the other should be in a position to help them and not just be tagging along.
 
michaelaz:
My only concern is with children diving ,is maturity level. Just because they can complete skills doesnt mean they are mentally mature. Anyone like myself with children (8 and 18) can vouch even teenage years ( or older) doesnt guarantee maturity and I question how they will make life or death decisions if faced.

**Flame suit on **

I agree, but at the same time I would trust my life to my 12 year old son before I would trust it to many of the flakey adult divers I have met.

I totally agree that if ALL of the skills have not been mastered they should not pass. Reinforcement is also critical... I had my 10 and 12 year olds out to a nice easy spring dive on the weekend and I spent about 20 minutes with each doing skills work.... refining bouyancy, alternate air supply, and mask clearing.

If we want our kids to develop into strong and safe divers, a percentage if each dive or dive trip should be dedicated to skills. This type of discipline is going to make us grow'd ups better as well because believe me, if they are doing skills they expect me to be doing them as well.
 

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