When should a shop request your C-Card?

What type of purchase should a Diver be Carded for?


  • Total voters
    233

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I really don't see why buying a tank, reg, bc should require any c-card. After all, you can buy them as a gift for someone, right? The only thing I agree is you need to show c-card to have tank filled, proper c-card for the kind of mix you want in your tank. All shop I visited require a drysuit c-card for renting a drysuit, but NOT purchasing one.
 
Hi All,

There are dive boats I use regularly which are quite clear in their statement - "we are a taxi, no more, no less. We'll take you out to an agreed position, maybe to a permanent shot, maybe we'll shot it, and then we'll bring you back - up to one hour later. No more, no less". They've never carded me or anyone I know of.

I sometimes telephone for a taxi to take me into town for a beer. They don't ask me for proof of my age before they take me.

Here in the UK, one of the most dangerous professions is working from height. I can go into any store and buy a ladder. No-one asks to see if I've been trained.

I can buy power tools, petrol (gasoline), pressurised flammable gases (for a plumbing torch), you name it, I can come up with a huge long list.

Even the tyre inflator at my local petrol station (filling station?) lets me pump up my own car tyres? It has a scale way beyond what my car tyres need (I know because with my truck I set it for double).

There are a lot of dangerous things out there. Your kitchen knives could really hurt you. So could the fuse box (breaker box?) in your house. Do you have a cert card to let you near it?

Thankfully, I live in a place where most rules (generally) aren't specifically designed to protect the individual. Where rules do exist, they're there to protect the people around you who could unwittingly get hurt if you're stupid. That makes sense to me.

I've never been carded for a fill, and if I was I would simply go somewhere else. Here in the UK we have a ridiculous situation whereby our five year hydro's as governed by SITA set one rule, the law of the land sets another. I recently had a tank - fully tested, hydro'd etc by a thoroughly competent, respected and legally insured/liable firm, be refused a fill because it didn't have a SITA (Scuba Industries Trade Association) sticker. This firm deals with pressure vessels all day long, they have expert knowledge in their field far beyond what any technician in an LDS has. But their test wasn't good enough. If I took the same tank to an LDS for testing, an LDS who don't have that knowledge but have a sticker from SITA which can be attached by a 17 year old who has done "the course" then it would be deemed to be safe.

I know what I prefer guys and girls, and compulsory or even voluntary regulation is, in my humble opinion, a path I'd rather avoid.

Dive safe all,
Cheers
Bill
 
There seems to be an erroneous assumption on the part of many that the possession of a c card ensures competence....
 
There seems to be an erroneous assumption on the part of many that the possession of a c card ensures competence....
I wouldnt say its ensures competence, but shows that you made an attempt at learning and helps release the shop of liability. People are sue happy and with Charters and parks especially it is a chance for a lawsuit, and I imagine with a shop filling a tank it opens them up more to a possibility of getting sued. Even if the LDS would win the case they still need representation and tiime which is money.
 
Hi All,

There are dive boats I use regularly which are quite clear in their statement - "we are a taxi, no more, no less. We'll take you out to an agreed position, maybe to a permanent shot, maybe we'll shot it, and then we'll bring you back - up to one hour later. No more, no less". They've never carded me or anyone I know of.

Same. Ive never been carded at any inland dive site or charter boat. I've never been carded for an air fill, a nitrox fill or a trimix fill. Ive never been carded to buy equipment.

Like you, if i was i'd simply go somewhere else.

Despite all that we aren't seeing a hollywood style body count of people with exploding tanks, trying 100m dives on a tank of gas after 2 mins wikipedia dive training or anything of the sort. Diving incidents are low, fatalities are low and *all* the reported incidents for many years have been involving certified divers!
Common sense and self-responsibility clearly works.

The only time regulation gets involved is if someone has something that could hurt OTHER parties and that isnt diving.

Here in the UK we have a ridiculous situation whereby our five year hydro's as governed by SITA set one rule, the law of the land sets another. I recently had a tank - fully tested, hydro'd etc by a thoroughly competent, respected and legally insured/liable firm, be refused a fill because it didn't have a SITA (Scuba Industries Trade Association) sticker. This firm deals with pressure vessels all day long, they have expert knowledge in their field far beyond what any technician in an LDS has. But their test wasn't good enough. If I took the same tank to an LDS for testing, an LDS who don't have that knowledge but have a sticker from SITA which can be attached by a 17 year old who has done "the course" then it would be deemed to be safe.

I guess you mean IDEST as opposed to SITA? They really annoy me. Its a money-making cartel and monopoly inventing its own rulings most of which are non-sensical. Its NOT law but sadly due to the way they apply it, the thing might as well be.
The standard tank testing period designed by HSE and is a legal requirement is one thing. IDEST have taken that 10 yearly and invented their own "needs a test every 2.5 years. Also needs O2 cleaning in between that" purely to make money.
They've also got all their member centres to refuse to fill tanks if they're legal and in test but tested with a non IDEST member testing centre (despite it meeting all the legal requirements). The result is now they have enough members you pretty much MUST follow their testing regime and pay their members to ensure you get fills.
Its nothing at all about safety, its everything about money. Its a cartel that i doubt is even legal.
 
I guess you mean IDEST as opposed to SITA?

Hi String,

Yes you're quite right - IDEST rather than SITA :) My bad.

And you've done a better job of explaining why it's a bad thing.

Cheers
Bill
 
The LDS I work for requires a C-card for Air Fills and Tank rentals, even if you have Dive Instructor tatooed across your chest. For all other gear the only thing you need is a form of payment. The Owners are concerned about the liablity of providing air to an un-certified customer. C-cards are also required for any dive trips booked through the Shop. Right or Wrong thats the LDS policy.

Thalassamania makes a very interesting point in regard to the greater liability. Would this also apply to the practice of requiring c-cards to enter the local quarry managed by a dive shop?

As far as asking to see the LDS's certifications, we are more than willing to show anyone who asks our Air quality certs or records.

I don't really see the big deal in showing a C-card, Mines in my wallet right next to the dollars I'm gonna use to pay for the air anyways.

John
 
I wouldnt say its ensures competence, but shows that you made an attempt at learning and helps release the shop of liability. People are sue happy and with Charters and parks especially it is a chance for a lawsuit, and I imagine with a shop filling a tank it opens them up more to a possibility of getting sued. Even if the LDS would win the case they still need representation and tiime which is money.

Why would an individual be concerned about helping to release the liability of a shop?
 
I wouldnt say its ensures competence, but shows that you made an attempt at learning and helps release the shop of liability. People are sue happy and with Charters and parks especially it is a chance for a lawsuit, and I imagine with a shop filling a tank it opens them up more to a possibility of getting sued. Even if the LDS would win the case they still need representation and tiime which is money.

Signing a liability waiver does not prevent anyone from suing the shop ... they will still need representation and time to defend themselves ... all the waiver does is give them a piece of paper upon which to build their defense. And as Thal pointed out, that's a two-edged sword ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
No need to prevent gear ownership, there is far to many variables, the C-Card and proof or demonstarion of proficiency and certification, for rental of equipment, air fills, dive charters etc, is what is needed. Most importantly profficiency for what kind of diving may be about to take place. But this gets to be a problem protecting high risk takers that the industry seems to adore.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom