When is it okay to exceeding training limits?

[Wookie]

So, it's back to my reformulation of the REAL question:

Do DMs or Instructors have any official guidelines on when they can take a diver beyond the diver's certified limits?

If a DM takes a fresh OW diver beyond 60 feet, are they violating any agency guideline? What about an instructor who does it outside of a formal class?

So, Back to my real answer. PADI tells you not to exceed your training and experience. If a Divemaster or instructor take you to 80 feet, you now have experience to 80 foot.

No, there is not a guide or rule that tells a DM or instructor not to exceed guiding you beeper than 60 feet. They may have an insurance requirement not to guide you below 130, the acknowledged recreational limit.

An OW divers certified limit is 130 feet.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

I tell newer divers that they are certified to dive in conditions in which they are trained. For example, if they are certified in the tropics it would be prudent to seek out a professional guide for their first dives in the Mid Atlantic. The same goes for depth. In a perfect world sound judgement needs to accompany the cert card.

 

[boulderjohn]

I can see where a certified instructor might only be accountable to their certifying agency for what they do during training.

But, doesn't a certification of Dive Master represent a professional certification to function as the leader (and guide?) of a dive? I don't know, but I would expect that being certified as a DM does not represent any ability for the DM to conduct training.

Believe it or not, the vast majority of DM training involves learning how to assist in instruction. In the heartland of America, DMs rarely lead dives. They mostly assist in instruction. In fact, there is some instruction they are allowed to do on their own.

If you are in a big resort area, the person leading your dive is likely not a DM. Those roles are usually filled by instructors.

But as Wookie said, there are no agency standards for leading a dive. Those rules come from the DMs employer and are likely determined by things like insurance policies.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Just restating what others have said, but in the end only you can decide what is safe for you to do, given your training, experience and whatever else you want to take into account. You educate yourself on the risks and benefits as best you can and you make decisions, just as you described yourself having done recently on dives that exceeded 60 feet.

It goes without saying that even staying within the limits stated by some agency for one's current level of training does not necessarily keep one safe. The risk is the same at 59 feet as it is as 61 feet. What you're "supposed to do" is try to make good decisions based on good information. The agency rules/limits are just one factor to take into consideration in making a decision.

From reading SB, what I've learned is that everything is going to kill me. No, seriously, what I've learned is a bit about how to gather information about risks and rewards. Things like what to ask/tell DMs in pre-dive briefings, how to assess an insta-buddy, not to blindly rely on someone's credentials to keep me safe, how to interview prospective instructors for additional training, etc.

 

[RJP]

There's no Scuba police so you also have to define OK.

That's what THIS guy used to think...

He received a summons for MOF as well as diving an Air2 in a DIR zone.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

When is it okay to exceeding training limits?

Short answer: whenever you're willing to accept the consequences, expected or not, whatever they may be.

 

[hroark2112]

My certification limit is 145'.

In October, I hit 151' on a dive with 2 SDI ITs and one SDI/PADI instructor. I lived to tell the tale, and don't feel all that bad about doing it.

This past weekend I was invited to go out on a dive to 185'. I declined the dive, telling the boat captain & mate that the dive is beyond my experience, training & certification.

What's the point here? Dive to your experience, training and certification level, and don't exceed your own limits without being 110% positive you are doing so in a safe manner and that you are following safe diving practices. Don't be in a rush to get too deep too fast, the fish at 30' are just as cool as the fish at 130'.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

But the wrecks at 130 are much cooler!

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes, a thousand back posts on this, one of my favourite questions.

OW divers trained to dive "to a max of 60' in conditions you were trained"? Does that mean if the surf is a little rougher today you can't go? Very vague. No real rules, as someone mentioned. Also mentioned was if you go with a DM to 80' now you have experience and can go that deep again. I have never read that, nor exactly how you are to "officially" get experience to go deeper other than of course through courses. If you never go deeper or in conditions other than which you were trained, you will never get the experience to do so!!! Once you graduate OW course you make the rules.

 

[Wookie]

But the wrecks at 130 are much cooler!

But the wrecks at 300 are freakin' AWESOME!!!