When is it okay to exceeding training limits?

[stuartv]

I've got my OW certification, so I'm certified to dive with a buddy of similar training to a maximum depth of 60 feet. Going deeper than that would be a violation of the standards, with respect to my training. So, when is it okay to go deeper than that?

If I'm enrolled in a Deep Diver course and on a training dive with my instructor, then obviously it's okay then.

But, what if I'm diving with a certified instructor, but I'm not enrolled in a course or formally on a training dive? Is it still okay?

What if I'm diving with a certified Dive Master, who is not a certified instructor? Is it okay then?


As most everyone knows, there are dive operators who take divers below their certified limits all the time. The op I dove with last month took me below 60 feet on two different dives last month. I am not one to exceed the limits that I am given. But, my training did not cover the question I have here, so at the time, I had to decide on my own whether it was okay to follow the DM deeper or not. I reasoned that I am not supposed to go deeper with only a buddy of similar training. But, at the time I was also with a DM whom I knew to be a certified instructor as well, so I decided it was okay. That and I felt totally comfortable with it. I just don't like doing things I'm "not supposed to do."

And, like I said, when it's okay to exceed limits was not a topic covered in my training. So, what's the official answer?

 

[Akimbo]

Is 60' a limit or recommendation? There's no Scuba police so you also have to define OK.

 

[decompression]

I think many will say, do what you want, there are no police underwater. The depth limits are simply a recommendation not a standard in which a regular diver risks breaking an agreement with whatever training agency. Many instructors will say it's ok to gradually go beyond your OW limits. Use common sense, dive safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You're asking people on Scubaboard???
Oh boy, let me get my popcorn!

On my 5th dive right out of OW I found myself on a charter boat in Monterey, CA. The first dive was a 100' wall outside of Point Lobos.
My buddy and I had such a good time we were giggling and grinning when we came up and got back on the boat. The captain wanted to know what was so funny and raised an eye brow when he found out we were brand new and did that, but we did everything right so he was cool with it. They never told to us that we had a 60' max when we took the class, all I remember was 130' max and 140' in an emergency.
Oh well.

 

[stuartv]

Is 60' a limit or recommendation? There's no Scuba police so you also have to define OK.

My understanding is that it is a recommended limit?

I know there's no Scuba Police. So, we all have to police ourselves, right?

I really just want to know if there is any standard from any agency on exceeding limits. With instructor, during formal class only?

I like to know what the official recommendations are, so that I can decide on my own if, when and how I ignore them. Which answer is that I generally just don't.

 

[scottwilson1]

well i'm in the same boat - ow cert but been below that with a dive op - if it's just my buddy and me I would make a plan with him/her and follow that plan. If we decide to goto say 80 ft well no one is really stopping you.
I don't think others divers will question you on your depth or try to take your cert card away. as long as your buddy and you are comfortable with the plan.

With a dive op up to them really -
I don't think there going to cover it in class since your not supposed to go below 60 ft much like a drivers ed class isn't going to tell you it's ok to speed.

If the instructor or dive master is willing to take you and your comfortable with it then i would say go who cares.

my 2 cents

 

[stuartv]

Maybe I should ask a slightly different question.

Dive Master and up are "professional" certifications, right? They do have Scuba Police, right? I.e. Their certifying agencies would potentially revoke their certification if they found out a DM or instructor did something bad enough.

So, is a DM breaking with PADI or SDI DM rules/guidelines if they take a fresh OW cert below 60 feet? Is an instructor breaking rules/guidelines if they do it and it's not party of a formal class?

 

[scottwilson1]

My understanding is that it is a recommended limit?

I know there's no Scuba Police. So, we all have to police ourselves, right?

I really just want to know if there is any standard from any agency on exceeding limits. With instructor, during formal class only?

I like to know what the official recommendations are, so that I can decide on my own if, when and how I ignore them. Which answer is that I generally just don't.

I'm sure someone will correct me here but if you have a ow cert don't you need a aow cert before deep diving class?
since ow cert is 60 aow is 100 and deep dive is 130 wouldn't that make the aow pointless if you can go around it with a deep dive class ?

 

[Kevrumbo]

[h=2]18m (60') Beginner/Novice OW Limit: An Objective Example of the Major Hazard Diving Beyond this Basic OW Limit to 30m (100').[/h]

A Quick Contingency "Rock Bottom" Calculation and Gas Plan Estimate for Open Water. . .

For a single 11 litre tank (AL80), a total of 11 litres/bar metric tank rating and a volume Surface Consumption Rate (SCR) of 22 litres/min -same as a pressure SCR of 2 bar/min*ATA (divide 22 litres/min by 11 litres/bar)- using an example NDL air dive to 30m (4 ATA) depth in Open Water.

Emergency Reserve/Rock Bottom pressure calculation, from 30 meters with one minute stops every 3 meters to the surface,
-->Just "tally the ATA's":
4.0
3.7
3.4
3.1
2.8
2.5
2.2
1.9
1.6
1.3

Sum Total: 26.5

Multiplied by 2 bar/min*ATA equals 53 bar Rock Bottom absolute reading remaining on your SPG. --this also happens to be the pressure in bar needed for one person in an emergency contingency to reach the surface with the above minimum decompression ascent profile.

So ideally for a two person buddy team, multiply 53 by 2 which is 106 bar for both to reach the surface (sharing in a buddy Out-ot-Gas contingency).

But realistically, for two experienced divers stressed: 106 bar plus 30% of 106 bar equals 138 bar Rock Bottom SPG reading.

For two novice divers stressed: 106 bar plus 100% of 106 bar equals 212 bar (!!!) -a full AL80/11L tank is 200 bar
--->obviously then, two novice divers on single 11L tanks should not be diving to 30m for any significant length of time. . .​

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

So, what's the official answer?

As far as I know there is no official answer. You won't get one.

What is realistic for you - what charters / captains / regional areas are you going dive with? Need to follow their rules...
Back in the day you only had to be certified to dive. End of discussion.
Things have changed since then - for the better or worse?
If you shore dive or dive off your own boat - you can decide for yourself the level of risk you are willing to take.