When drills become thrills - incident caught on video

[Jax]

I think I had a one in a thousand freeflow, Ian had the one in a thousand LPI failure, we were very unlucky to get them at the same time (the one in a million).

Kind Regards
Bill

Bill - neither you nor Ian had a one in a thousand freeflow!!! I still cannot believe you still think this!

Why do you you think we drill-drill-drilly-baby-drill with valves? Because everyone gets freeflows!

Do you know what the steps are to go to a pony?

1- go on pony and open pony valve.

2- once you're sure it's working, shut down back gas.

You did not do that! [-]Despite what Devon Diver said, I am seeing you as someone that does not have the judgement to be a diver. Seriously. [/-] Bill, I apologize. I made some presumptions here, and until TSandM pointed it out, I realized I hadn't had these things stressed in class . . . . I had picked them up here on ScubaBoard, much as you are. Thank God you survived this, and can learn from it.

Until you can smoothly and sucessfully execute every drill with your eyes closed, from deploying your pony, swapping regs, turning your tank on and off, etc. . . . You don't need to be diving outside of a pool. Oh, yeah . . . practice handsignals and always illuminate them with your light.

 

[Jax]

When the freeflow occurred, I changed to the octopus first, so I was still breathing from the 15 - I saw no point in wasting the gas. I wanted the freeflowing reg out of my mouth because I couldn't see anything in the mass of bubbles

Okay, and as soon as you saw you could not stop it, you should have gone to the pony and shut down your back gas. Why didn't you?

Obviously I was acutely aware that it was draining quick, and once it reached 40 bar (about 600 psi) I then swapped to the pony.

Bill

Were you??? Were you aware of the fact you were throwing away life support?

Do you know how long it takes a free flow to drain a 12l? (80cf)? about 83 seconds. You left YOUR and YOUR BUDDY's emergency gas blow to hell.

If you had shut down your back gas, and gone on the pony, you'd had that gas. If the pony goes south, you can turn on your back gas enough to breathe and not lose it so fast.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

thanks Jax, altought a little hard but that was the point that I was trying to make. Why are you still hanging out, checking pressure gauage, waiting for buddy to see your signal when you are so close to the surface, have a pony (can understand if the pony could not be used due to depth and FiO2)?

I would like to make a WAG (wild ass guess) here. Bill, I am just guessing but I would say that you and Ian are good friends, dive often together and have never had advance training (advace nitrox/deco, solo, cave, Fundies, tech intro, etc, etc). I am also assuming that you two are just begining to play around with doubles, ponies, deth, in other words tech gear. And I would also guess that the water temp was cold as cold gets. If the above is true then several of us have been in your fins before. We started out OW and got the bug to advance our skills but we wanted to play around with different ideas, gear config. and other areas prior to taking a formal class. Please let me know how close I am.

 

[TSandM]

You did not do that! Despite what Devon Diver said, I am seeing you as someone that does not have the judgement to be a diver. Seriously.

I think this is way beyond harsh.

What are we taught in OW about freeflows? Breathe the freeflowing reg. Nobody discusses alternative approaches to handling this particular emergency, and nobody is asked to do it in midwater or in the dark. Unless you have an unusual instructor, nobody talks about how fast a freeflow empties a tank, either. Who would believe you could empty a 95 in 90 seconds? I wouldn't have . . . until I was involved in having it happen. I have since seen Curt Bowen's article on this on the Advanced Diver Magazine website, which confirmed my personal experience.

Recreational divers are not taught about the incident pit, and are not drilled in handling failures. The two guys in our Rescue class this last weekend had about 70 dives, but they hadn't done an air-share since OW. Nobody told them they ought to.

I think the OP has shown humility and wisdom in reviewing the dive for his own insights, and for opening the event up to the (sometimes rather pitiless) scrutiny of something around a hundred thousand other divers . . . He is not defensive and not trying to say that what they did was right. When someone is clearly thoughtful and contemplative, I think the least we can offer is a bit of kindness, along with the bitter pill of criticism and advice.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Wow... Well said!

 

[Jax]

I think this is way beyond harsh.

What are we taught in OW about freeflows? Breathe the freeflowing reg. Nobody discusses alternative approaches to handling this particular emergency, and nobody is asked to do it in midwater or in the dark. Unless you have an unusual instructor, nobody talks about how fast a freeflow empties a tank, either. Who would believe you could empty a 95 in 90 seconds? I wouldn't have . . . until I was involved in having it happen. I have since seen Curt Bowen's article on this on the Advanced Diver Magazine website, which confirmed my personal experience.

Recreational divers are not taught about the incident pit, and are not drilled in handling failures. The two guys in our Rescue class this last weekend had about 70 dives, but they hadn't done an air-share since OW. Nobody told them they ought to.

I think the OP has shown humility and wisdom in reviewing the dive for his own insights, and for opening the event up to the (sometimes rather pitiless) scrutiny of something around a hundred thousand other divers . . . He is not defensive and not trying to say that what they did was right. When someone is clearly thoughtful and contemplative, I think the least we can offer is a bit of kindness, along with the bitter pill of criticism and advice.

You think? Then I take it back, and apologize, Bill.

My understanding is that Bill is training to be a dive lead, which is like a DM? Or am I confused?

I will back off and say instead, "You do not show any recognition that you were involved in a real incident that could have cost you injury, and you need a lot more drills, training, and research before you go into the dark and do these things with a buddy."

 

[Jax]

What are we taught in OW about freeflows? Breathe the freeflowing reg. Nobody discusses alternative approaches to handling this particular emergency, and nobody is asked to do it in midwater or in the dark. Unless you have an unusual instructor, nobody talks about how fast a freeflow empties a tank, either. Who would believe you could empty a 95 in 90 seconds? I wouldn't have . . . until I was involved in having it happen. I have since seen Curt Bowen's article on this on the Advanced Diver Magazine website, which confirmed my personal experience.

Recreational divers are not taught about the incident pit, and are not drilled in handling failures. The two guys in our Rescue class this last weekend had about 70 dives, but they hadn't done an air-share since OW. Nobody told them they ought to.

Actually . . . Except for Solo teaching me about the tank-emptying . . . when does one get trained in the above? What class?

I've learned about all of the above from y'all here on ScubaBoard, and reading recommended books. But, when I think about it, Rob Neto (Sidemount) is the only one that ever stressed drills-drills-drills, under varying conditions. However, I'd already made it a part of my self-training.

 

[TSandM]

All of my off-mainstream training has emphasized drilling . . . my Rec 2 and Rec 3 classes with 5thD-X (the predecessor of UTD), my GUE classes (all of them), and my UTD Tech 1. My tech training has all involved handling failures, with strategies discussed in class, practiced in very shallow water, and then practiced on deeper dives and in midwater. Tech diving has the approach that whatever can go wrong, will, and you had better be able to handle it. In general, recreational instruction has the attitude that not much goes wrong and if it does, you can surface.

 

[ahava]

I will back off and say instead, "You do not show any recognition that you were involved in a real incident that could have cost you injury, and you need a lot more drills, training, and research before you go into the dark and do these things with a buddy."

Dont see how you can say this. Why did he post this if he didn't think this could of been very costly..Apparently he recognizes there were problems and looking for what they should of done different.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

well it did not take too long for this as well as other threads to be a fundies / GUE thread. Bill and Ian I wish you guys the best. Now let's sit back and listen to taking regs apart underwater, team assisting while doing so...all at 9 feet.