When does "Gas Management" get taught?

[darkpup]

And I don't believe that is the question. I think the question is "how much gas do AOW divers need to reserve at 100 fsw in order to get back to the boat safely?" In assuming that they'll spend a minute at depth and blow off their safety stop you've already assumed an awful lot.

And the running joke in my RecTriox class was that "West Coast DIR" is using double E8-130s because we factor in 15 mins of time at depth to sort out the problem...

Sherwood was a little incredulous at first that everyone was wearing double 130s for 100 fsw weenie dives, but after he saw us in the water he started to understand... =)

Fair enough, although that was the question I stated, and that is the question you disagreed with in my post.

~ Jason

 

[lamont]

Fair enough, although that was the question I stated, and that is the question you disagreed with in my post.

~ Jason

I guess your answer is correct, I just disagree that its a useful question.

 

[darkpup]

I guess your answer is correct, I just disagree that its a useful question.

Well that's definitely something we agree on. (i.e. usefulness)

~ Jason

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's only the simple stuff it you make it that way. I teach what you describe for your advanced course in the scuba diver course. 90% of what you listed is "must teach" stuff anyhow.

Bob, I've taught in Nova Scotia and the Great Lakes in Canada and the carib. the location does affect the course but doesn't have to an effect on the quality unless one allows it to as the instructor. I'm not busting your chops here.

This whole post bothers me, this stuff should be and needs to be taught, regardless of the agency. The idea that some have that DIR fundies are the way to get training in basics is wrong, there are instrs. for every agency that do a great job of covering what a diver needs to know and instrs. for every agency that shouldn't be teaching..

As instructors we need to always ask ourself if we are doing our job right.

Best,

Chris

In principle, I agree with you ... although at times it DOES seem like y'er bustin' my chops ...

But the devil's in the details. If you can teach all of that to a typical BOW student, at more than a conceptual level, you're a far better instructor than me. No surprise there ... you've been at it longer than I have.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Peter Guy]

So, for you instructors out there, am I correct in my understanding that:

1. PADI does NOT teach "gas management" (here defined as calculating one's SAC rate or RMV and then using the number to determine what is the "safe" amount of gas needed to get you and your buddy back to the surface when necessary) as part of OW or AOW. PADI has very limited written material on the subject in its OW & AOW texts.

2. NAUI permits its instructors to teach "gas management" but does not require it and the NAUI written materials have little relevant material at the OW and AOW level.

3. DIR-F and, I suppose, Essentials of DIR, both teach "gas management" as defined.

4. Most "thinking" divers (I really want to write "advanced" but that's another story) believe Recreational Divers (both OW and AOW) should have SOME concept of "gas management" that is beyond the "be on the boat with 500 PSI" -- in other words, all divers should be able to come up with some basic notions of how long they can breathe off their tank at the surface and at depth and how long it will take them to come safely back to the surface from whatever depth they are planning to dive.

Am I on the right track here? And to answer the original question, Gas management generally isn't taught soon enough.

 

[amascuba]

In the SSI Logbook that you get when you take the Open Water class their is a formula to see what your SCR (Surface Consumption Rate) is, which can be used to figure out your air consumption at depth. It's a place thats easy to over look and I've never seen it taught in any of the materials that I've been through except the Dive Control Specialist book. None of it is covered in deep diving, which would be a logical place for it at a minimum.

It's also worth noting that I've witnessed several open water classes being taught by a handful instructors and it has almost never come up. The only time it has come up was when a student asked what the formula was for in the book. The instructor then gave a very brief "The SCR formula is used for..." and that was the end of the conversation.

 

[amascuba]

Am I on the right track here? And to answer the original question, Gas management generally isn't taught soon enough.

Bingo! There are several things that I think should be taught in Open Water, but aren't.

I'd like to see:

Gas Management
Planning and executing Multi-level dives by the tables

Those are two of the big ones .. I think we should start a list

 

[TSandM]

Proper weight distribution and achieving optimal trim.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

So, for you instructors out there, am I correct in my understanding that:...Gas management generally isn't taught soon enough?

Peter,

While I, personally, agree with you (and I'm an instructor, albeit not an active one), I suspect that the majority of instructors out there may examine your hypothesis and retort: "soon enough for what?"

Like many responders, I first calculated SAC and RMV in an IANTD Advanced Nitrox/Extended Range course. The concepts of 'rock bottom' as well as thirds and other gas management issues etc. came in DIR-F, and were expanded on during an NACD Cavern/Intro to Cave course.

That was 'soon enough' for what I was doing.

I'm not sure I would have used it much earlier.

I guess that while I'd agree that any 'advanced' diver should be able to perform gas management calculations and plan dives accordingly, the fact remains that the vast majority of recreational warm water vacation divers simply don't, and don't feel particularly illiterate for not doing so.

From their perspective (and that of a large number of their instructors), I'd be willing to bet that they simply don't think they need it. They dive their computers, enjoy their vacations, and don't worry about matching cylinders or RMV calcs.

There is likely a correllation between overhead diving and gas management, and a general sense that if you're not planning for the former there is little need to sweat the latter.

I don't agree with that paradigm, but I'll bet its fairly widespread.

Most recreational divers at the uh, 'advanced' level don't feel they need it. So...what exists currently is indeed 'soon enough'.....

 

[vkalia]

Yes, but I have serious doubts that standard AOW-trained divers will only spend a 1 minute at depth before ascending in an emergency as well. Our RecTriox class highlighted how terribly insufficient (or non-existant) the training was in standard scuba classes to just get off of the bottom as fast as you can.

Eh? The standard recreational diving safety procedure is - if something goes wrong, you go up. Recreational diving is predicated upon the fact that the surface is 1-2 min away, regardless of where you are in most cases.

Vandit