What's your take?

[scubafied]

The scenario: I'm currently doing a Go Pro internship and have just recently gotten my Rescue Diver cert. (No, I have not updated my profile yet so please leave that out of the discussion here) Yesterday myself and 5 other DMT's went out for a couple of dives and this is what took place. The first dive went well and everyone descended, did our training exercise and surfaced together, as briefed. 2nd was more of a fun dive on a wreck with of a Pre-Dive Briefing by one of us (not me), that included not exceeding 22 meters and to stay tight as a group (this was said multiple times) even though we had still paired up in buddy teams. What happened: 4 of the 6 of us managed to stay together as a unit, the other 2 in the group decided somewhere after the briefing that they were going to do Fish ID (with slates from an area thousands of miles away) without mentioning it to anyone. So while we are at depth, these 2 are all over the place (not sure if they exceeded max depth but I wouldn't doubt it), consistently lagging about 20 meters behind and stopping to stare at the fish. We were not moving quickly at all and ended up having to wait multiple times for said buddy team to catch up. 1 of the 2 was more interested in the Fish ID and was constantly leaving the 2nd diver to check something out. At one point the DMT leading us had his buddy go to pair up with the 2nd diver who had been left alone again and upon doing so the 1st returned to them. Upon the end of the dive I was informed that the 1st diver does this on almost every dive (not Fish ID but a general disregard of the briefing and doing what they wish). Every one made it out with plenty of air and in their teams which seemed to reinforce the 1st divers opinion that they did nothing wrong (it was after all a fun dive and not a training dive). The 2nd diver did not seem to have any issues with their partners behavior either. While I don't believe you need to be holding hands to keep track of your buddy, if they are more than 5-6 meters from you, aren't you a bit far away if something were to happen?

Now maybe I'm jumping the gun because I still have the Rescue course fresh in my mind but It seemed that there was a general lack of situational awareness on the part of the 1st diver. Not concerned with their buddy or the group, just the fish of which the slates had to have been fairly useless. Granted, it was a fun dive but if your not going to plan the dive and dive the plan then what good is the briefing in the first place? If they been mentioned before hand that they were going to do this, I don't think anyone would have had an issue with hanging about or waiting a little but as it were, we all were a bit put off.

I don't want to be a Padi Preacher and say everything has to be by the book, down to the letter but am I wrong in not wanting to dive with this person? Maybe I spend to much time on this board reading the accidents and incidents forum but it seems to me that most problems start out small and can escalate quite quickly underwater (even though nothing happened).

What's your take?

 

[tstormdiver]

It is your decision as to whom you dive with. If you are not comfortable with a particualr diver, find another buddy. As for buddy separation, how far away I am depends on the buddy I'm with. If it is a newer & inexperienced diver, I will stick close (within 10- 20 ft), if the buddy is comfortable & self reliant, I have no problem with bigger distances of up to 40 ft or so. My own comfort,... I know I can swim up to 75 ft without air to aquire it, if I need. I have been diving with some "buddies" (I use the term loosely with these folks) in which I was esentially solo. If I know that before the dive, I'm OK with it. Basically, you have to dive the way you are comfortable with.

 

[FireInMyBones]

While I don't believe you need to be holding hands to keep track of your buddy, if they are more than 5-6 meters from you, aren't you a bit far away if something were to happen?

Short answer: yes. Too far. I like being within arm's reach and if I'm not able to see my buddy for the viz, closer.

Now maybe I'm jumping the gun because I still have the Rescue course fresh in my mind but It seemed that there was a general lack of situational awareness on the part of the 1st diver.

I do not believe your are jumping the gun. I agree with you.

...am I wrong in not wanting to dive with this person? Maybe I spend to much time on this board reading the accidents and incidents forum but it seems to me that most problems start out small and can escalate quite quickly underwater (even though nothing happened).

I wouldn't want to dive with them either. Not a good buddy. If they want to disregard the safety of others, leave me out of it.

 

[DevonDiver]

Welcome to reality!

There are some extremely sucky divers out there...and some of them have the money to pay for DM courses.

Maintain your own standards.
Don't get complacent.
Don't get over-confident.
Don't think you know better than the 'rules'.
Don't ever think you are too good to get yourself in trouble underwater.

...and complete the rest of your DM course in the knowledge that (if working as a DM) you won't have a choice about the quality of diver/customer you will be in the water with. It's a sobering thought...and may help you focus appropriately on the personal standards you may want to attain during your DM training!

 

[Kilili]

Many seasoned divers do not buy into aspects of PADI philosophy, such as "plan your dive and dive your plan", the concept of buddy diving, and the idea of being chaperoned by a dive master. As you gain experience, you make up your own mind about such, and leave others to do as they choose.

However, before entering the water, it should be clear who is going to do what, and those with different mindsets make for poor combinations.

With novice divers, the rules make good sense while you are trying to develop self-sufficiency, which should be a primary objective.

My practice is to not dive with buddies, let alone groups. A personal guide is fine for locating creatures, but I do not necessarily stay in close proximity to him. We both hunt and have an idea where each other is, though visibility may prevent us from seeing each other. If no personal guide, I dive solo, and though I may enter the water with others, may rarely see them underwater.

In your situation, the dive master is at fault, either for tolerating the actions of the two strays, or for not explaining that they are of a different mindset.

 

[DevonDiver]

Many seasoned divers do not buy into aspects of PADI philosophy, such as "plan your dive and dive your plan", the concept of buddy diving, and the idea of being chaperoned by a dive master. As you gain experience, you make up your own mind about such, and leave others to do as they choose.

Another way to look at that would be:

Many complacent divers feel that they are good enough to ignore safe diving practices, such as "plan your dive and dive your plan" or the concept of buddy diving. As they gain experience, their diving becomes more sloppy and dangerous.

Such lines of thinking normally continue up until the point when the diver concerned has a 'near miss'. Ego tends to be brought back into line with capability after such an event... and the diver concerned 're-learns' the value of proper protocols and established systems.

 

[TSandM]

I think it's generally unworkable to expect six or eight divers to stay together, and I wouldn't accept that dive plan. Two is great; three is quite solidly doable. Four becomes a challenge, and beyond that, it just doesn't work.

So the failure of the two to stay with the group doesn't really bother me, as it was an unfair plan to begin with.

The failure of the two to remain together and operate as a team would bother me a great deal, and if one of the divers had a solid rep as not being a good team player, that is a person I would be reluctant to pair up with. If I had to do so, I would have a definite talk with him before diving, and if he wouldn't agree to change his ways, I'd request a different buddy.

The sad part about professional training is that there really is no entry bar except a certain number of dives and the willingness to pony up the money. Not everyone who signs up for a DM class is DM material -- one of the most critical attributes of a good DM, in my book, is superb situational awareness. Whether you are assisting with classes or leading dives, you have to be aware of everything that is going on around you. Eyes in the back of one's head would be a good thing for a DM; casual disregard for your buddy and your group is a serious black mark for a candidate, in my view.

 

[ScubaDocER]

At first glance, there seems to be a few issues that come to mind.

1. Behavior as a DMT.

As a DM (or DMT as well IMO) your actions reflect those of a dive professional whenever you are in the water. That does not mean that you are always responsible for random divers not under your direct supervision, but that your behavior is a reflection of you and the certification you have worked hard to achieve. If you teach divers to plan a dive and dive a plan, then you should as well. If you teach divers to demonstrate appropriate buddy awareness, then you should as well. Just because you are on a "fun" dive does not mean that you should disregard some basic diver concepts. That particular team should have conducted the dive a bit better. You always want to be a positive reflection of your profession.

2. Behavior as a "team"

As Lynne pointed out, it is incredibly difficult to keep a group of that size functioning as a true team. While the group may have general goals, it may have been easier to function as competent teams of 2. That way each team can discuss their dive plan, goals, intentions, air/depth/time limits, etc. If there is a 2 person team that wants to do fish ID, then so be it. You will find that leading a large group of divers with various skill levels will present interesting challenges for you. Some will stay right on your fin tips, some will drift down to chase a gorgeous Blue Angel fish at 110 feet, some will be so preoccupied with their depth gauge or brand new dive computer that they will hardly notice you at all. The ability to multi-task is paramount to being successful as a dive professional. A good DM class will help to reinforce that concept.

3. Personal dive preferences.

As Tammi noted, who you choose to dive with remains your choice. The theory is that you need to be a breath away from your dive buddy. If that breath is 75 feet (as in Tammi's case) then so be it. If it is less, then I would close the gap. Dive with those who share your philosophy of safety, planning, and awareness. Teach your students to appreciate the importance of those concepts in their own diving.