What’s the future for California dive boats?

[Cert1967]

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Breaking News: CNN just reported that the boat owners have been served with "warrants", although it didn't report on what the warrants were for.

California boat fire probe widens as FBI and Coast Guard serve search warrants on Conception owner

The affidavit will make interesting reading.

California Penal Code 1525 -- Issuance; probable cause; supporting affidavits; contents of application.

A search warrant cannot be issued but upon probable cause, supported by affidavit, naming or describing the person to be searched or searched for, and particularly describing the property, thing, or things and the place to be searched.
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Probable Cause

APPLICATION TO SEARCH WARRANTS

Probable cause exists when there is a fair probability that a search will result in evidence of a crime being discovered. For a warrantless search, probable cause can be established by in-court testimony after the search. In the case of a warrant search, however, an affidavit or recorded testimony must support the warrant by indicating on what basis probable cause exists.

Probable cause" is a legal phrase. It refers to a "reasonable" belief that criminal activity is taking (or has taken) place. So before a judge issues a search warrant, he/she must have a reasonable belief that the person /property specifically described in the warrant application (otherwise known as an "affidavit") will be found in the searched location.​

 

[BoltSnap]

All battery chargers I have (I have lots of batteries for my u/w photo equipment) have shut off for when the batteries are fully charged. They will "trickle" charge the batteries when the batteries lose their charge overtime. It is a safety feature modern chargers have AFAIK.

 

[Akimbo]

Fire sprinklers would sink boats. That is why they aren't used

This brings up an interesting possibility. The vast majority of residential fires are put out by one fire sprinkler within a few minutes. Standard sprinklers are available with flow rates between 10 and 25 GPM or 38-55 LPM -- that's not much weight. I have to wonder how effective a pressurized fixed-volume of freshwater would be that is sized so stability would not be impaired by the total weight of the stored water. It may not save the vessel but could buy a lot of time to evacuate and provide a reliable second tier alarm -- after smoke or CO detectors.

Fires start about the 4 minute mark​

For those unfamiliar with residential or commercial fire sprinklers:
A simple flow sensor is installed in the main supply to the sprinkler system to sound an alarm. The circuit should probably be modified so the alarm continues to sound after the total volume is exhausted. Additionally, that same circuit should probably kill electrical power the that compartment. Individual sprinklers are all mechanical valves opened by a calibrated glass vial that breaks due to thermal expansion, opening the valve. More info: How home fire sprinklers work

Considering the small volumes on a boat, the system could be designed to use a greater number of the smaller 10 GPM sprinklers. Note that sprinklers are sized and spaced based on room/compartment volume and individually activate based on temperature. They all provide the about the same density of water when they go off.

PEX tubing is accepted for residential fire sprinklers, which would significantly simplify retrofitting vessels compared to rigid metal or plastic pipe. One downside is this type of sprinkler system is sensitive to freezing so might limit it usefulness in cold climates when unattended at the dock.

 

[Tony66]

To add few thoughts regarding the posts about fire sprinklers. 1) fire sprinklers are designed to save lives, give people in a burning building time and not designed to save property. 2) the first responders are also given some time to enter a building where a sprinkler system has slowed down the spread of fire. 3) sprinker heads in most systems are activated by a thermo fuse located at each head. 4) sure, water can sink boats but so does fire. With deck scuppers and bilge pumps would allow so time before a sinking would happen. 4) Sprinklers on all boats wouldn't be necessary, just those where groups of people are sleeping on them.

Regarding the post above; lots of design possibilities but maybe an AC/DC pressure pump systems so the boats wouldn't need to carry extra weight for a pressurized system. A dry system, similar to what is found in freezers and parking garages so there's no water in the system. A "pre-action" system is a chemical agent with a water back up found in computer server rooms. If the chemical (FM200) doesn't put out the fire in a certain period of time the water fire sprinklers will activate.

Regardless; we has human beings can be pretty dumb sometimes and we all make mistakes. Therefore automation can be a good thing.

 

[Akimbo]

1) fire sprinklers are designed to save lives, give people in a burning building time and not designed to save property.

True, but the great majority have also saved buildings. More specifically, fire sprinkler systems are designed to save people and not property. You can design systems to have an even higher probability of saving property too.

I have an old client who is now a good friend that is a fire systems engineer and instructor. I learned a lot from him, but still not much compared to him.

 

[cs4160]

I too fear for the future of lobs in California. Very thin profit margins, the Great Escape, a well set up LOB became a fishing boat after its captain passed away. I love the channel island trips but lately, unless it’s a limited load I don’t feel like being stuffed into a single bunk, perhaps it’s more an age thing as it didn’t use to bother me. But seriously, if the changes start pushing a 3 day trip to closer to 1k....I think I might be more inclined to use miles, spend a little and go to Cozumel or Hawaii....and in fact as I got my kids into diving, that became the plan. This 3 day trip that conception had would have been about 2800 dollars for a family of 4....if that became closer to 4K, I can’t imagine doing it. SoCal diving is unique and interesting, but vs 80 degrees and 100 ft viz....

If the safety changes are necessary, we have no choice but I wonder how it will ultimately effect the industry....same for the fishing boats....but I hear they have better margins

I would be interested to hear what some of the shops or clubs that charter the boats think? Ken/Reefseekers for example...

 

[broncobowsher]

I keep reading that California diving is unique due to the cold water and weather. However cold water diving happens in many places.

…

But when California is at your back door, it is a place to go. Few hours on the road and you are there. I've driven from AZ to San Diego, and home again in a day. A very long day, solo, not the best idea. And a LOT of people live in or near southern California. Not many travel long distances to dive California. It's a cheap local trip. Check locations of people on boats and they are less than a day's drive away.

By contrast when I was doing the U352 earlier this summer the boat had people from AZ (2 different groups), Oklahoma, and Wisconsin. It was a day boat, not a live on board. That was more of a destination that brought people in. Very different than California. It was also warm water. A year before I did the Oriskany and there was a group that took half the boat that also had a huge road trip to get there. I forget where they came from but was impressed they drove that far.

I have not gone through the Conception Manifest (I really have no need to), I know from local news that 2 were from AZ. I recall from early reports that most were local to California. I know California is unique, but I feel it is mostly a draw for the locals.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

...I would love to have a bigger vision type boat operate out of NorCal to hit some of the rugged coastline.

I approached several fishing charter boat captains out of Bodega Bay to try and convince them to try diving charters since at that time they had clamped down on sport fishing regulations and the sport fishing charters were all worried they’d be out if a job. The problem we found was that liability for a diving vessel was too great for the number of divable days in a year on average, and the math just didn’t work out.
As you know, there is some terrific and dramatic diving in Sonoma and Mendocino Counties but conditions change so rapidly that there is no way to book trips around that.

 

[caydiver]

Just did a mandatory Fire course related to the chamber. The course was general and everyone at the hospital will have to take it. I learned a lot. UK accredited course with many vids from North America. Water or water based extinguishers cannot be used on electrical fires, flammable liquids or flammable metals, the consequences are dire and worsen the situation. Vids on the progression of a simple house fire take it from a small start to a raging inferno in about 30 seconds. Replacement chargers and overloaded electrical points are one of the number one reasons for electrical fires. As rightfully stated a fire extinguisher or sprinkler system is there to hopefully give an escape window until professional help comes unless it is out within the 30 second area. I am sure there will be lots of finger pointing, law suits, and all the rest. But fire is one of Mother Nature’s big tools and when given fuel, oxygen and heat and less than a minute the situation will be totally out of control especially where there are no professional options to extinguish it. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy but it may have possibly been unavoidable and what some might call fate.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I could just see a sprinkler malfunction in the middle of the night when there is no fire and somehow the sprinkler system goes off when everyone is snoring away warm and cozy. That would suck.
But it would be better than burning up alive.