What's The Big Deal With Sidemount?

[victorzamora]

How about a rational judgement about what cost/benefit people who were cave/technical divers got from the switch - apart from the caveats I made(eg restrictions). I mean surely you spend a load of money and time on something, it was for a reason or reasons right?

And that's fair. One thing mentioned above was that many don't "switch" but start off in SM....so there's no additional cost associated there. Others have medical concerns (back, knees, shoulders, etc). bamafan pointed out just one of dozens of places I've come across where SM was "required" but had no requirement of "bottle off."

Honestly, looking at the cost/benefit: sell all of your dive gear completely and take up a cheaper hobby. One big, deep OC dive would cost more in gas fills than switching to sidemount. Some recreational-only dive computers cost more than the switch to backmount. I enjoy diving sidemount, so I converted and was happy to pay that price.

Why am I happy? This goes back to my list and the one DevonDiver and others have posted and talked about. I feel more "free" in Sidemount, sidemount is more flexible (different tanks, rental tanks, no backwards valves available, etc), failure points are easily visible (no carrying a mirror or guessing at valve drills), fully isolated gas supplies, and easily making it into smaller parts of caves (again, I'm not talking about the true grindy/gnarly aggressive sidemount cave). Also, it's fun. It gives me something to fiddle with when I want to, but it's good enough to leave alone when I'm not in the mood.

 

[victorzamora]

I think claim is a bit strong.

seriously, new first stages, new can light, hoses, stage kits, training etc

You stated it outright, as a fact. I certainly don't think "claim" was too strong.

Apeks Tek 3s OK for sidemount? are you happy to swap them if you're wrong?

Do Apek Tek3s work for sidemount? Absolutely. Would they be my first choice of SM first stages? No.

Can light cord is short and old(dive rite) will that reach from my arse to my hand? No it wont.

Can light cords are VERY cheap to replace. I purchased the appropriate cord type for my canister light (old dive rite canister) for $0.37/ft. The full conversion will cost me under $3 and take less than 30 minutes...using about $10 worth of equipment I already had (adjustable wrench, for example). The manufacturer of the light cord does a more thorough installation than most people could do and only charges $60 for custom length adjustments. Plus, you don't have to butt mount it. Plenty of people mount them on their backs or on their waist belts. I took Cavern-through-Full Cave diving an old Dive Rite Wreck Canister (10W HID) with the stock BM cap and cord length.

So your point, as you put it, is based not on knowing what gear I own,

No, my point was based on knowing what gear is required for SM and how flexible the "requirements" truly are. The difference between "functional" and "optimal" isn't clear, either, as what I call optimal others will call a poor decision. DevonDiver (Andy) dives a dramatically different SM configuration than I do. My main cave buddy does as well, and we're both looking at making further dramatically different steps in our diving. Your Tek3s are a great example. Are they perfect for SM? I don't think so. However, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I believe that Toddy Walde developed his entire method of teaching sidemount (quite popular in Germany from what I understand) around the Apeks Tek3 regs. My understanding is that your Apeks Tek3s are absolutely perfect in his system.....but it's a system that I simply don't believe in.

 

[toby43]

Useful post thanks esp on the light cord although in wouldnt be confident to change it myself. Bit soft on the cost benefit side though( find a cheaper hobby) if i want to a be patronised by someone i dont know, I'll ask my ex wife...

 

[Reku]

Well in my case - I can't carry doubles....like at all. It kills me. The diving I do requires it however (caves/wrecks - I don't like tropical fish) - so my option is - sidemount. I rig the tanks the night before - drive to the site throw them in the water, park the truck - don the rest - walk to the water and don the tanks.

walking is easy - it's walking with gear that is a PITA. other divers don't usually mess with your stuff so I'm not to worried about the tanks hanging out in some shallow water for a bit. And then do that in reverse - drop tanks near shore - walk to truck doff everything else - drive to tanks - throw them in truck. Doing anything remotely similar in doubles would be impossible for me (I can't lift both tanks at once).

For boats it's just carry rigged tanks to boat - stash them somewhere - grab the rest from truck and good to go. I just hand my tanks up at the end of the dive and giant stride with neck chokers at the start and assemble in water. Generally I'm in the water before the people with doubles - which gives me time to setup.

That said - SM and BM are tools and should be used as such - I SM because it is the tool that allows me to dive. Dive whatever you want - none of it really matters in the end as long as you get to dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think claim is a bit strong. Apeks Tek 3s OK for sidemount? are you happy to swap them if you're wrong? Can light cord is short and old(dive rite) will that reach from my arse to my hand? No it wont. So your point, as you put it, is based not on knowing what gear I own, but on having had a bad day at a guess.

I teach sidemount and my students show up for training with a wide variety of kit. Whilst I provide my students with a comprehensive pre-course eBook that suggests equipment solutions, I'm not restrictive in what they choose to own or use. In every instance I'll help them optimize and adapt what they have for the best outcome. Most of that optimization needs little more than a bit of bungee, a few zip-ties, occasionally some duct tape or glue here or there.

Whilst most students have purchased their own sidemount BCDs, many will not have completely re-configured their other equipment - regulators, can lights, ancillary stowage pockets, fins, etc etc etc. In every case there is a workable, if not optimal, solution. As with most things 'tech'; the optimization can come later...step-by-step...as the user tweaks and refines their kit. The same process applies to backmount (apart from those opting to configure according to the most strictly kit and protocol standardized agencies).

Apeks Tek3 regulators are quite workable for sidemount. The lack of a 5th port (end port) means they'll never be optimal for hose routing; you'll need to bend the LPI through at least 90-degrees. This clutters the chest a little more than necessary and can cost a few seconds occasionally fumbling for an LPI that doesn't sit exactly where you want it to be. Other than that (and drysuit, if used, for the same reason), there's no real issue; the SPGs route perfectly and the regulator hoses route as you'd want them.

Can lights don't have to sit on your arse. Who said they did? They merely don't work well traditionally mounted on the waist belt - as this interferes with the cylinder attachment/movement. It's quite possible to find a very satisfactory mounting solution, depending on the model of sidemount BCD used. Where I have students using 'mexico-cave style' sidemount rigs (Razor, Stealth, WSX-25 etc), I've seen students very happy with mounting can lights snugly alongside the spine weight pockets - with the cord either routing up-and-over the left shoulder, or even under the armpit and forwards. The can light itself is then well protected under the wing and also by the weight pocket system. Some of the long-thin design can light battery packs work exceptionally well that way....the short-fat ones less so.

There are two solutions to sidemount configuration: (1) re-equip from scratch with an 'optimal' set-up; or (2) use some ingenuity (or hire some expertise) to formulate custom solutions based on what you have available.

There are still generations of sidemount diver who devised their own solutions because off-the-shelf solutions weren't available. That persisting 'home-brew' mentality is one of the reasons, I guess, why sidemount configuration is still seen as a something you can (if so inclined) enjoy as a tinkering project.

 

[OMANDIVER]

I teach sidemount and my students show up for training with a wide variety of kit. Whilst I provide my students with a comprehensive pre-course eBook that suggests equipment solutions, I'm not restrictive in what they choose to own or use. In every instance I'll help them optimize and adapt what they have for the best outcome. Most of that optimization needs little more than a bit of bungee, a few zip-ties, occasionally some duct tape or glue here or there.

Whilst most students have purchased their own sidemount BCDs, many will not have completely re-configured their other equipment - regulators, can lights, ancillary stowage pockets, fins, etc etc etc. In every case there is a workable, if not optimal, solution. As with most things 'tech'; the optimization can come later...step-by-step...as the user tweaks and refines their kit. The same process applies to backmount (apart from those opting to configure according to the most strictly kit and protocol standardized agencies).

Apeks Tek3 regulators are quite workable for sidemount. The lack of a 5th port (end port) means they'll never be optimal for hose routing; you'll need to bend the LPI through at least 90-degrees. This clutters the chest a little more than necessary and can cost a few seconds occasionally fumbling for an LPI that doesn't sit exactly where you want it to be. Other than that (and drysuit, if used, for the same reason), there's no real issue; the SPGs route perfectly and the regulator hoses route as you'd want them.

Can lights don't have to sit on your arse. Who said they did? They merely don't work well traditionally mounted on the waist belt - as this interferes with the cylinder attachment/movement. It's quite possible to find a very satisfactory mounting solution, depending on the model of sidemount BCD used. Where I have students using 'mexico-cave style' sidemount rigs (Razor, Stealth, WSX-25 etc), I've seen students very happy with mounting can lights snugly alongside the spine weight pockets - with the cord either routing up-and-over the left shoulder, or even under the armpit and forwards. The can light itself is then well protected under the wing and also by the weight pocket system. Some of the long-thin design can light battery packs work exceptionally well that way....the short-fat ones less so.

There are two solutions to sidemount configuration: (1) re-equip from scratch with an 'optimal' set-up; or (2) use some ingenuity (or hire some expertise) to formulate custom solutions based on what you have available.

There are still generations of sidemount diver who devised their own solutions because off-the-shelf solutions weren't available. That persisting 'home-brew' mentality is one of the reasons, I guess, why sidemount configuration is still seen as a something you can (if so inclined) enjoy as a tinkering project.

Thank you very much for that; thats a great relief! and thanks to all those who offered well intentioned and genuine advice, its all very useful food for thought.

 

[Razorista]

However, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I believe that Toddy Walde developed his entire method of teaching sidemount (quite popular in Germany from what I understand) around the Apeks Tek3 regs. My understanding is that your Apeks Tek3s are absolutely perfect in his system.....but it's a system that I simply don't believe in.

Just something to add to the Apeks Tec3 thing:
Yes, they are one of the recommended Toddy regs (Toddys special features are made with the DS4 in mind, not the Tec3).
But:
They also work in any other 'style', are made for sidemount more or less (as is any 'DIR style regulator setup').
Both can be setup in a way that let's all hoses go downwards parallel to the tank, with the SPGs on the outside and the first stages protected towards the body.

They are useless for building a good single tank sidemount setup, but the only real issue with doubles is that you have to use slightly longer inflator-hoses and route those in a small loop.
Not perfect for extreme restriction diving perhaps, but 'extreme' is the keyword here: they work perfectly in many extremely tight restrictions, could perhaps catch on something in the most extreme, everywhere else the longer hoses are a lot more comfortable when swinging the tanks forward, for example.

Another thing:
The inflator hose Hollis delivers with their systems is about the right length for the Tec3 and many other non 5-port first stages.

 

[OMANDIVER]

Another thing:
The inflator hose Hollis delivers with their systems is about the right length for the Tec3 and many other non 5-port first stages.

thats good to know I have a Hollis 45lb wing that came with LPIs. Can you expand on why Tek 3s no good for single tank set up? is that because only 4 ports so no dry suit hose?

 

[Razorista]

Yes, because of only 3 LP ports (and only two are comfortable with the spg hose).
On the other hand I personally never use two inflators on a single tank setup anymore, even though I never dive wetsuits.
On a dive where I do not even need doubles, why should I ever use the wing in a way that oral inflation would be a problem? (so: no wing hose, but one for the drysuit)
And if you already take that into account a T-adapter to mount 4 hoses to the Tec 3 isn't much of a safety issue.

 

[tbone1004]

so the tec3's are fine, but you have limitations. You can't run the inflator hose out the bottom like the razor guys do, you can't run the SPG's up like many Florida divers, and you don't have a rotating turret or ports on the top so it's slightly less ideal. That said I don't think the tec3's are actually good for anything except stages, the DST is much better for doubles, but that's neither here nor there. For sidemount coming from backmount, you NEED to get a longer secondary hose, especially with the Tek3's, a pair of HP hoses, extra SPG and that's it. Your long hose and inflator hoses are perfectly suitable, though maybe less than ideal. Total cost new is $100 for that. The single tank is due to lack of drysuit, but you can always orally inflate the wing, and since you'd only be using AL80's for single tank sidemount, if you're in a drysuit, you don't need to use a wing.

Regarding the canister light, the standard cord lengths are perfectly fine and many divers depending on the rig will actually have them on their hip just like in backmount. Depending on the rig you can also mount them across your back, or up the spine, tons of options. Again, is it ideal? Of course not, the only light that is truly brilliant for sidemount is the UWLD with the side gland, but that doesn't mean anything can't be made to work. Like Victor said, extending the cord is as simple as going to Home Depot and buying some SJOOW cord, which is exactly what is used, making 4 solder connections, and putting the gland back on. That simple, takes 10 minutes if you're a slow solderer.

stage kits as mentioned aren't needed, but if you're a DIR diver, you know how cheap they are to make. Again, go to Home Depot, get some electrical tape, some SS worm gears, some braided line, and you should have extra bolt snaps. If you don't, buying bolt snaps and some gold line is super cheap. Total cost of about $15/tank if you have to buy everything

Plugs for your manifold, no getting around that. $35

Training, not required, though not frowned upon. Depending on where you are located, if you can get to a demo center it may be worth it to help narrow down the rig you ultimately buy as well as remove some frustration. 2 day class at Cave Adventurers is $400

Total cost for that is call it $600 for easy math, plus the rig of your choice. Is it cheap? No, but the training isn't required if you have a buddy who is good at sidemount and can help you get your gear setup, so $200+rig assuming you have to buy a new SPG, hose clamps, and bolt snaps.

Rational reasoning for making the switch? Bedding planes become easier, less risk of cave ceiling damage from the tanks, as you get older being able to carry single tanks, having visual access to your gas supply. Many reasons. I believe in a cave it is a superior and far safer equipment configuration. In open water, I still prefer backmount, but that is personal preference and because I don't have a thick piece of rock over my head, even if there is a decompression obligation, a gas failure on backgas is very different than in a cave. I never made the switch for cave, I did all of my training in sidemount, but I was also doing it before it went mainstream and before gopros so I struggled for many many dives to figure out my equipment configuration because the only instructors were in Florida and I was in college at the time. If you like backmount and are doing mostly open water diving, and are happy, I don't see any reason to make the change other than "because I want to". If you are cave diving, I truly believe it is a better and safer equipment configuration and on that I would recommend that you consider switching. For $1100 you can buy a brand new rig and a full sidemount regulator set vs. $700 for the rig alone