What would you have done?

[ZzzKing]

I believe this represents the most likely findings of the jury, had the diver died and a subsequent lawsuit resulted.

The diver is responsible for what the diver does. I didn't read anything about the captain or the LDS rep holding a gun to his head and forcing him to dive. Personally, I wouldn't take much solace in what the jury had to say if I was the one that was dead.

 

[TSandM]

Just a useful piece of information . . . I had a freeflow on an LP 95 at 30 fsw, when I had only used about 500 psi out of the tank. I immediately went on shared gas, but before we got anywhere near the surface, the tank was empty. A freeflow empties a tank FAST. You're not going to get to the surface from 120 feet with a freeflowing regulator without running out of air.

 

[jefffalcone]

I'm a new diver, and I've been reading this board for about 5 months. In that time I've read quite a few posts from NWGratefuldiver. They have provided me with a lot of usefull information that has made me a better diver. In that time I have never seen him post a "you're going to die" speach. Lots of others on this board seem to think that every new diver will probably die soon. If NWGrateful diver is giving this speach, you should listen.

One of the best places to find buddies that I've found is in the local forums on this board. Almost any day that I've wanted to dive and I posted looking for a buddy, I've found one. They've all been good buddies. Another thing that's pretty common in my area is dives sponsored by LDS's that envite anyone to join.

One piece of advice that I havn't seen in any posts I've read on this thread is that if you ascended a little as you swam towards the ascent line, your computer would have given you more no deco time. As little as 10 or 15 feet makes a big difference, and if conditions were as good as you say, you could still follow the wreck back to the line from this depth.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Just a useful piece of information . . . I had a freeflow on an LP 95 at 30 fsw, when I had only used about 500 psi out of the tank. I immediately went on shared gas, but before we got anywhere near the surface, the tank was empty. A freeflow empties a tank FAST. You're not going to get to the surface from 120 feet with a freeflowing regulator without running out of air.

Over 40 years of diving and I had my first, uncontrolled freeflow two weeks ago... As I dive larger tanks than most people, I still had enough left to get to the surface... but had I been diving deep, with an al80, not sure I would have. As it was, I just went thru 800 psi in around a minute (after kinking the hose to get it to shut off).

 

[Colliam7]

Good thread, for many reasons. Thanks for sharing the experience. A lot of us have 'matured' through similar experiences.

I signed up through my LDS and not the boat charter. ... the pairing up was made by the LDS representative who I signed up for the trip with, NOT the captain. The instructor I was paired with was supposed to be leading the trip as per the LDS, and I was paired with him as a fallback due to no other buddy being present for me.

One after-action step to take is to discuss this situation with the LDS. They are probably quite interested in knowing how their trip leaders and coordinators are performing. The instructor was not being paid to dive with you, BUT if he was the nominal group leader, it is quite possible that his charter costs were being comp'ed or even covered by the LDS and there was an implied obligation to be an active buddy, once the pairing was made. The LDS should also be a good potential source for finding a dive buddy. As the responses suggest, most folks can understand your situation. You spend the time and money, you get to the dive site, are paired with an instructor who is also supposedly the group leader, and you go ahead and make the dive. The number of people who would have bailed out and not gone diving at that point is pretty small. Captain's Choice charters are quite common along the Atlantic, and even when a site is posted there is not always a guarantee you will end up there. But, there are lots of charters along the coast, from MD down to NC that are worth doing and not altogether remote from the DC area, so keep looking and keep posting. One additional option that several have suggested is to find the time, and money, to perhaps make a more extended trip to a 'new diver friendly' area where you can continue to develop skills at the shallower yet enjoyable depths.

You had a valuable learning experience. You came back safely. You are reflecting on what happened and what you learned by posting the questions that started this thread. Good for you! (And, a number of profiles, threads, messages, etc. were lost over the last 4 weeks when SB had some technical problems. It wasn't you, it was the technology. So, go ahead and redo your profile)

 

[cgilyeat]

I'm going to scout around and see if I can scare up somebody in the DC area who'd be willing to do some mentoring dives with you, if you're open to that. Having a good mentor is a fantastic way to skyrocket the speed of acquisition of good diving skills -- I know, because I was lucky enough to have one, and that was NWGratefulDiver, who contributed to your thread a few posts above here. You should listen to him -- He's a very fine instructor and a wise diver.

Lynne, I'll save you soem of the trouble of looking for someone in the DC area. I'm in the DC (southern Maryland) area, BUT, I'm nowhere near experienced enough to be his mentor, but I would be more than willing to be a dive buddy. My experince level is not much better (approx 30 dives) and right now my schedule (and current budget) is such that I don't have alot of time for diving, but maybe we could work something out.

The Logic Theorist, feel free to contact me me.

Colin

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Good thread, for many reasons. Thanks for sharing the experience. A lot of us have 'matured' through similar experiences.One after-action step to take is to discuss this situation with the LDS. They are probably quite interested in knowing how their trip leaders and coordinators are performing. The instructor was not being paid to dive with you, BUT if he was the nominal group leader, it is quite possible that his charter costs were being comp'ed or even covered by the LDS and there was an implied obligation to be an active buddy, once the pairing was made. The LDS should also be a good potential source for finding a dive buddy. As the responses suggest, most folks can understand your situation. You spend the time and money, you get to the dive site, are paired with an instructor who is also supposedly the group leader, and you go ahead and make the dive. The number of people who would have bailed out and not gone diving at that point is pretty small. Captain's Choice charters are quite common along the Atlantic, and even when a site is posted there is not always a guarantee you will end up there. But, there are lots of charters along the coast, from MD down to NC that are worth doing and not altogether remote from the DC area, so keep looking and keep posting. One additional option that several have suggested is to find the time, and money, to perhaps make a more extended trip to a 'new diver friendly' area where you can continue to develop skills at the shallower yet enjoyable depths.

You had a valuable learning experience. You came back safely. You are reflecting on what happened and what you learned by posting the questions that started this thread. Good for you! (And, a number of profiles, threads, messages, etc. were lost over the last 4 weeks when SB had some technical problems. It wasn't you, it was the technology. So, go ahead and redo your profile)

2 things:

1 - I'm not sure how to go about contacting my LDS. I have contact info for 2 people, 1 was on the boat and helped make the dive plan, and the other is the one who did my AOW course. Out of the 2, the AOW instructor strikes me as much more approachable and much more concerned with diver safety. However, I don't want to call him and come across like I'm "telling on" the other guy. Should I even care about this?

2 - I do have a trip planned in November to Malta for 10 days, and will be doing a LOT of diving. I've just got that itch and want to get in a few more dives between now and then.

 

[cmalinowski]

2 things:

1 - I'm not sure how to go about contacting my LDS. I have contact info for 2 people, 1 was on the boat and helped make the dive plan, and the other is the one who did my AOW course. Out of the 2, the AOW instructor strikes me as much more approachable and much more concerned with diver safety. However, I don't want to call him and come across like I'm "telling on" the other guy. Should I even care about this?

2 - I do have a trip planned in November to Malta for 10 days, and will be doing a LOT of diving. I've just got that itch and want to get in a few more dives between now and then.

1. you don't appear to be coming across as the "Hi, this is LT, you're man almost killed me" type of person. You seem to understand that you had responsibility here and that you are new and don't know a lot. So, those would bode well for your ability to communicate your concerns in a non-tattling manner.
2. good plan: more diving.

I'm going to PM you and give you my information. You caught me just at the end of my "free time" for the summer, but I'd be happy to chat with you about stuff and possibly help where I can... and do some diving as well. My divable time probably won't free up until late August, but that's only a little over a month away. I'm not affiliated with any dive shops around here, but there are a couple of groups that might be worth meeting.

And, btw, I made pretty much the same mistakes when I started. I've since learned the error of my ways in many aspects of my diving... and I still have buttloads to learn.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, but do understand that most of your arguments against NWGD's issues were flawed or still relied on "best case". It's usually not one thing going wrong that will kill you--they usually just start to snowball. But, you're getting hammered hard enough and getting bunches of stuff thrown at you. Getting into the relative merits of every single way you could have done something differently in this thread would get long and just cause a massive storm

Take care and I look forward to talking with you more if you would like.

Chris

 

[fire_diver]

Actually I don't care about your opinions because of the condescending tone you're taking. Everyone else that's posted, even if they don't agree with me, has at least posted with respect, and as a result I respect their opinions.

If you have a respectful and constructive post to make, please do so. Otherwise there are plenty of other threads on this board, or more than enough room for you and me.

Sorry that you found my post "condescending." I stated in my FIRST post how absolutely wrong the entire situation was. I'm not in the mindset right now to coddle and hand-hold the newbies. This is a dangerous hobby we love. I don't like hearing about divers killing themselves from stupid actions. The fact that you thought this was in your scope of training floored me.

I am glad that you took the time to post, and respond to concerns posted by others. It shows you have good head on your shoulders. There's a lot more knowledge here on SB than in any books you could read. Maybe next time you post, I'll be out of my "platoon daddy" mode of thinking.

Good Luck,

FD

 

[Matt_NJ]

Just a useful piece of information . . . I had a freeflow on an LP 95 at 30 fsw, when I had only used about 500 psi out of the tank. I immediately went on shared gas, but before we got anywhere near the surface, the tank was empty. A freeflow empties a tank FAST. You're not going to get to the surface from 120 feet with a freeflowing regulator without running out of air.

Aint that the truth. I just did a shallow dive averaging 15'. About 50 minutes in my buddy and I had almost identical gas consumption. The float line for out dive flag got tangled up in my primary and ripped it out or my mouth and the reg started freeflowing. No big deal, I grabbed my backup and buddy helped me untangle primary and tilt it down to stop the freeflow, probably took about 30 seconds total. During that time I dropped about 600PSI below what his was, I was really shocked at just how quickly that let the air out.

-Matt