What would you have done?

[Leejnd]

I was SO glad to see that many of the posts on here were dupes! After reading the first post, I really wanted to read the whole thing, but was daunted by the number of posts. What a relief!

Anyway, clearly there's been a lot of discussion on this topic already, and I will try to refrain from being repetitive. I do want to note that I felt TS&M's post pretty much encapsulated most of what needed to be said about your experience, and I wholeheartedly agree with everything she wrote.

However, I do want to add in a few comments. I was happy to see that you seem to be truly absorbing what people are saying to you. But then I got to this:

Ok, I'll forgo diving till I win the lottery.:crazy3:

Seriously, I think if this dive plan had not called for a solo ascent, and if my buddy had stuck with the plan, I would have been diving within my limits, although granted near the edge of my limits. I know a good number of you won't agree with me, but that's life, we can't all agree all the time.

Two things of note: first, your issue about throwing away good money by bailing on a dive that you paid for. This concerns me. The bottom line is that diving is a sport that can quickly lead to DEATH, and too many new divers just don't truly comprehend the gravity of that. Ask yourself, is it really worth a couple hundred bucks to put yourself in a situation in which you have a good chance of dying?

When I was just learning to dive, an experienced dive buddy said to me that the smartest diver is the one willing to call the dive, no matter the consequences. Because the consequence of going forward with a dive in which something is wrong, are far greater than any consequence that might occur from calling it.

One time, a friend took me out for my first kayak dive. I still didn't have my own equipment then, so I had to rent it all, and that was the only day I had to dive for the next week, so I had to use the gear then, or return it unused. The surf was a bit high, so it took us forever, and many shin bruises, to get the kayaks past the surf zone. Once we did, there were stronger currents then expected and it took us almost an hour of heavy paddling to get to the dive site. Once there, we were preparing to dive when the weather started to turn, the current and waves picked up, and my buddy began to be concerned that we would have a hard time getting ourselves and our gear back into the kayaks after the dive. So he called it. Part of me wanted to scream, "WHADDAYA MEAN, CALL IT? The waves aren't that bad...we can do this...hey I worked too damn hard to get here, and paid good money to rent this gear, so we are GONNA do this dive!" But then I heard my friend's advice in my head, and realized that it was just not worth putting my life in jeopardy. If we hadn't been able to get back on the kayaks, we'd have been bobbing out there in the ocean for who knows how long...and we may never have made it back.

Okay, that's a long drawn out story, but the point is: BE WILLING TO CALL THE DIVE if anything, anything AT ALL just isn't right. And there were so many things that weren't right with that dive plan that I'm not going to bother listing them all here.

Then there's the part where you believe that the dive was within your limits. I realize that I am repeating what others say here, but I just think this message is too important to NOT repeat: that dive was NOT within your limits! Not by a long shot. Eleven dives, and you wanted to go to a wreck at 120 ft, and do a solo ascent? Straight out of class?? Not even close. I know it's hard to accept that you are just not "there" yet, because you want to be, and believe that you are. But it is just not possible for anyone to be there after 11 dives. Please listen to all the experienced divers in here who are telling you that. They have wisdom gained from hundreds of dives, and it sounds like you posted your story so you could benefit from it. Please do.

Now, you've got the dilemma of, how DO you get to dive? I feel your pain. Something like 80% of all new OW divers never dive again after their class, primarily because they just don't have anyone to dive with. And I know exactly how it feels to go out on a boat as a newbie, and have all these experienced divers ignore you as they do their pre-dive checks. They too paid for the dive, and it's understandable that they don't want to waste their own money babysitting someone, especially when it's a stranger. So what do you do?

Some people mentioned dive clubs. That's an excellent idea. Join one, maybe through your LDS (after you've REAMED them for doing what they did). Go to meetings, listen to speakers, meet people. Chances are you'll meet someone with more experience who will be willing to go diving with you, knowing your experience level, and actually behave like a true buddy. Another suggestion would be to plan a tropical dive vacation. Many destination dive spots run their dive trips in the "resort" style -- on every dive, the divers must be accompanied by and stay with one or two DM's, who run the dive. They monitor each diver's gas, and make sure that each diver is properly handled. They expect that many divers on their trips will be "vacation" divers - people who dive once or twice a year, and so aren't very skilled or experienced. And the dives are usually pretty easy dives, in a warm environment with great vis, which will allow you to just gain more hours underwater and refine things like buoyancy and gas management.

I too am happy that you had the presence of mind to seize control of the situation and get yourself out of the water alive. And I'm happy that you posted your story, as I believe that this is a thread that could help many a new diver avoid the same situation.

Some day you're going to look back on this, and just shake your head in disbelief that you even tried that dive. I have a few of my own newbie experiences that I shake my head at. But, like you, I tried to learn something from each of them. Good luck, and I hope you keep diving!

 

[TSandM]

He was diving doubles, and I knew up front that he would be down there way longer than me. I did not know he was planning a staged deco dive, although in retrospect that should have been fairly obvious to me.

It's a small point, but none of what's said there is valid. Just because he's diving doubles does NOT mean he plans to be down there longer, or that he is doing staged deco. I dive doubles, as does my husband, and as do most of my friends, and we're all diving within recreational limits (no deco). And when I dive with a new diver, as I often do (or try to do often, anyway), I dive my doubles because they give ME insurance -- I'm less dependent on the new diver if I get into any trouble myself.

So doubles don't necessarily indicate what somebody is planning to do. But they should make you ask the questions of your proposed buddy.

I get madder every time I read this thread (especially after I've had to delete reams of duplicate posts).

I'm going to scout around and see if I can scare up somebody in the DC area who'd be willing to do some mentoring dives with you, if you're open to that. Having a good mentor is a fantastic way to skyrocket the speed of acquisition of good diving skills -- I know, because I was lucky enough to have one, and that was NWGratefulDiver, who contributed to your thread a few posts above here. You should listen to him -- He's a very fine instructor and a wise diver.

 

[Leejnd]

Once again, I agree with everything TS&M said (as usual ). And I think it's very kind of her to try to help you find dive buddies. I don't know anyone in the DC area, or I would try to help as well.

I wanted to add to the whole finding-a-dive-buddy thing: As a new diver, it really is NOT a good idea to go out on a dive boat without your own buddy. I learned that the hard way in two different ways: doing it myself, and feeling like a dork when no one wanted to dive with me (I ended up with the boat's DM, who thankfully did a great job and didn't ABANDON me); and then later being on a small boat with an inexperienced diver who didn't have a buddy, and getting stuck with her.

There was a long thread recently (which is probably gone now, due to the SB problem) in which I posted my story about going out on a small dive boat in which everyone but one new diver had a buddy with them. She was quite unhappy that none of us wanted to dive with her, but we each had paid our own good money to go on that dive (in a foreign country that we'd traveled some distance to get to) and none of us wanted to give up our own dive plans for someone we didn't even know. On one dive, my dive buddy decided to sit it out, so I agreed to dive with her -- which turned out to be a huge mistake, because I ended up having to basically save her life when it turned out she didn't have basic buoyancy skills and almost plummeted uncontrollably to 150 ft. She then breathed her tank out in about 12 minutes, ending my dive way earlier than I would have liked (note: I went up WITH her, in spite of my chagrin). And yes, I was a bit peeved. We were only doing a few dives there, and I wasn't too happy to give one up to someone who A: was diving beyond her abilities (these were advanced dives), and B: came on a dive boat by herself, expecting others to take care of her. I'm telling you this so you'll understand why, at the level you are at, you really should bring your own buddy on dive boats. Remember, these people paid their couple hundred bucks too, and they don't want to throw it away any more than you do.

This doesn't mean you won't find experienced divers to mentor you. The point is, the diver should AGREE to mentor you, not be forced to -- and then he/she should DO it, meaning, not abandon you so they can do their own dive. Lots of experienced divers want to help new divers. I have no doubt that you will find some.

 

[Texasdivechick]

I -DO- want to dive. Is it bad etiquette to show up at a boat charter alone and try to find a buddy? Or is that how you meet people?

I've actually arranged to meet up with a couple of people from Scubaboard and we had a great day of diving. I also joined a local dive club and learned that there is always someone diving somewhere, newbies almost always welcome. It may even be less expensive this way as I'm not actually paying someone to take me diving (as with an LDS) and I've been able to make about 20 of these easy dives to gain lots of experience and work on skills in between my bigger and more expensive dive trips. I would do an internet search for local dive clubs and start there. The advice given to you on this thread has been sound so far. Just because you have a piece of paper that says you're advanced doesn't mean that you're ready for advanced dives. Take it easy for a while.

 

[Texasdivechick]

I have primary coverage through work, and secondary I have the DAN master plan.

I get where you're coming from definitely, and I certainly won't be purposefully planning dives that push the limits of my training. But, as it is, my diving choices are severely limited by my location and the cost of dives around here. I may just not have looked hard enough yet, but I can't find much worth doing near me (DC) that's not a boat charter, and then I have to rent gear, a car, and potentially a hotel room. I've found a charter out of Ocean City that has a schedule, and my plan at this point is to do several dives in the 70-90' range with them. If -they- call the dive on account of conditions, I'm not charged, and that depth is well within my training limitations. Seems like the best plan moving forward.

Try some local quarries, lakes, or scuba parks. These places may not be kewl ocean diving but it will usually give you good places to practice your skills. And for a while, perhaps it is better to NOT be checking out the coral and fish and concentrating on buoyancy, air consumption, buddy skills, etc....

 

[The Logic Theorist]

I'd say that's debatable.

You might have been diving within your limits assuming that nothing went wrong. But what would you have done if for some reason you'd experienced a free flowing reg?

Ascend at the slowest rate possible breathing from the freeflowing reg the way I learned in OW, and use the extra air on the hang line at 20ft for my safety stop. Find another diver at the hang line and share air with them to ascend the remaining 20ft.

Or somehow managed to lose a fin ... or your mask?

I'm a fairly strong swimmer, and though I recognize swimming without a fin is difficult and requires a lot of exertion, I could have surfaced. If I'd lost my mask I would have ascended at the slowest rate I could freely and signaled for the boat to pick me up.

What would you have done if current would've prevented you from being able to get back to the line before beginning your ascent?

There was little current, but I would have done a free ascent and signaled the boat. They'd warned me before the dive that in the case of a free ascent I'd have to wait for every diver to get back on board before they could come pick me up.

Your Open Water instructor SHOULD have taught you to think about contingencies as part of a basic dive plan ... certainly you should have learned this as part of the deep dive "experience" of an AOW.

They have, and I did. I'm not going to say I could deal with every eventuality, and I recognize that its easier to have these answers on my couch than it is under the sea.

You didn't mention what size tank you were using ... but I doubt it held adequate gas to safely support you and your dive buddy if you'd have had to do a shared-air ascent from 128 feet.

We already went over this, and no, there would not have been enough air left. However, my buddy was the one with the cavalier attitude in this respect. He's got his years and years of experience and obviously did not think he would need to breathe off my tank, so he didn't take that into account. Yes, I should have taken it into account, that's one of the things I know I did wrong.

You exceeded your deco limit ... and you exceeded your ascent rate. So obviously you weren't diving within your limits. You're lucky ... and luck has a way of catching up with you underwater.

I exceeded my deco limit due to the buddy not following the plan. I did extend my safety stop as per what I was trained to do.

As far as my ascent rate goes, I made that statement based on what the computer dive log showed. I'm honestly not entirely familiar with that computer (which is why I had my watch as a backup) and I don't know at what point it tags the ascent as too quick. Either way, I did a relatively slow ascent. Its not like I just shot up to the surface with no regard for making a slow, safe ascent.

At your experience level, I'll offer a couple of "rules of thumb" that you can apply to help keep you out of situations like this one.

First, don't go deeper than the amount of cubic feet of gas in your cylinder. If you're using an AL80, limit your depth to 80 feet. If you want to go deep, get a bigger tank. Your gas isn't just for you ... it's so that if your buddy has an issue and you need to come up sharing air, you'll be able to do so safely.

Second, never get in the water with someone who doesn't plan to BOTH start and end the dive with you. A solo ascent from 128 feet isn't something that a diver without an alternate air source should even contemplate. What would you have done if you'd lost access to your air supply right after you and your buddy parted ways? Blow and go? Doubtful you'd have made it. More likely you'd have panicked and embolized long before your body floated to the surface. I'm not normally into "your gonna die" speeches ... but some friends of mine pulled a dead woman out of the water last year because she attempted something like that.

People "get away" with doing dives like that all the time ... and because nothing went wrong and they made it, they think it's within the limits of their ability. That's the wrong way to think about it ... the limits of your ability extend only to the point where something can go wrong, and you can deal with the problem and still make the ascent safely.

From 128 feet, and without a redundant air source, that requires a competent dive buddy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Those are all really good tips, and I do appreciate them. I hope the answers to your questions don't come off as snotty, that's certainly not what I'm intending. As far as losing my air supply after buddy seperation, believe me the thought crossed my mind. I was ascending near enough to other divers that I felt I could get to them and signal out of air in time, but I would have much preferred to ascend with a buddy, like I'd been trained to do.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Well, hopefully you won't die. If so, I hope you have a fast death and won't suffer. 70-90' is WAY outside of your range, regardless of what your AOW instructor may or may not have told you. Right now, you don't even know what it is you don't know.

But I know you don't care about my opinions becuase they fly in the face of your superior training. So go forth, dive, and pray you have a fast death if the merde hits the ventillator.

Good Luck!

Actually I don't care about your opinions because of the condescending tone you're taking. Everyone else that's posted, even if they don't agree with me, has at least posted with respect, and as a result I respect their opinions.

If you have a respectful and constructive post to make, please do so. Otherwise there are plenty of other threads on this board, or more than enough room for you and me.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Then there's the part where you believe that the dive was within your limits. I realize that I am repeating what others say here, but I just think this message is too important to NOT repeat: that dive was NOT within your limits! Not by a long shot. Eleven dives, and you wanted to go to a wreck at 120 ft, and do a solo ascent? Straight out of class?? Not even close. I know it's hard to accept that you are just not "there" yet, because you want to be, and believe that you are. But it is just not possible for anyone to be there after 11 dives. Please listen to all the experienced divers in here who are telling you that. They have wisdom gained from hundreds of dives, and it sounds like you posted your story so you could benefit from it. Please do.

I really did not want to do the solo ascent. I definitely do not think that's in my limits/training, but I did not feel that I was able to say anything about it. That's the part that I've learned the most from, that I need to stand up and say when I have a problem with something, regardless of the elitism wafting off of the people making the dive plan.

I too am happy that you had the presence of mind to seize control of the situation and get yourself out of the water alive. And I'm happy that you posted your story, as I believe that this is a thread that could help many a new diver avoid the same situation.

Some day you're going to look back on this, and just shake your head in disbelief that you even tried that dive. I have a few of my own newbie experiences that I shake my head at. But, like you, I tried to learn something from each of them. Good luck, and I hope you keep diving!

Thanks!

 

[Leejnd]

I really did not want to do the solo ascent. I definitely do not think that's in my limits/training, but I did not feel that I was able to say anything about it. That's the part that I've learned the most from, that I need to stand up and say when I have a problem with something, regardless of the elitism wafting off of the people making the dive plan.

And that may be one of the most important lessons you learn in diving. I know it was for me! I have made some diving decisions in the past based on feeling some of the same pressures you describe, and then posted my story in here...and got much the same advice. I now feel far more confident to stand up for myself and NEVER do anything beyond my comfort level. Good for you for seeing that. It's your life, after all, not theirs. Never let anyone push you into doing something that might put yourself in jeopardy.

And I don't blame you for your post about...um...someone being condescending. I don't know why people can't be polite in here. I've had the same thing happening to me in another thread.

 

[Adobo]

7 pages worth of replies so forgive if this is really nothing new..

My only tip to you is to try and recognize situations that are accidents waiting to happen - before you get in the water.

And btw, if it was your dive shop and/or an instructor that "helped" you in this situation, I would suggest you avoid that shop and/or instructor in the future. (You don't really wanna give people who don't have respect for your safety more than one chance to kill you.)