What would you do?

[imasinker]

RJP
You made some great points Thank You!

I would have to assume if I shut of his air he would remember to orally inflate his bcd if I was with him or not and at this point I don't know his state of mind...tuff call huh?

A whole other set of variables.

 

[imasinker]

Use your knife and slash his bladder. Or yank off his inflator hose - maybe just cut it. Whatever it takes to empty his BC (or drysuit), FAST!. Of course, that assumes you have control of your own BC - not a given in this scenario. Unfortunately, I would readily sacrifice my buddy's BC to my well being.

You are the rescuer, it is your task (responsibility) to control the buoyancy of BOTH divers. What you should have done is completely dump both BCs before starting the ascent. Then SWIM to the surface. If it is at the beginning of the dive and both tanks are highly negative (say HP 100s) then you will need lift to get off the bottom. Try to do that using only your own BC. But YOU control the ascent.

I am not going to consider the complication of both divers using doubles. It takes a LOT of lift to get off the bottom.

With an unresponsive or uncooperative victim, this gets very complicated. You will run out of hands trying to control both BCs especially if you are using an AIR 2 type device for your own octo - not the case here.

All of which brings up the question, do you have enough lift to get 2 divers off the bottom at the beginning of the dive with full tanks?

Richard

I had more than enough lift for the both of us, bc and drysuit. Heres a problem. Slashing a knife around a panic diver, while trying to deflate and hold him. I have but one hand available. By the time I realize whats happening it is over!

 

[RJP]

Ray.....my situation was exactly your 1-6 scenario, and we both had pony bottles.....30's....we just never got to the OK sign part. Your assumption is that panic does not occur immediately in experienced divers. So was mine.

I guess I should have listed that as one of my assumptions, but really would not have considered myself "experienced" at that point anyway, and most importantly as you point out: IT'S A VERY BAD ASSUMPTION!



As you know from your recent cave training, there's a lot that can go wrong all at once in a training situation, where you intellectually...

a.) "know" that the specific problems are coming
b.) "know" what the appropriate solution is per the skills on the dive
b.) "know" that the instructor is right there with a solution to anything you can't handle

And with all that you are STILL always on the verge of loosing it.

 

[Surelyshirly]

Very true.......hope to catch up with you on the boats this season.....

 

[victor]

1. Don't Panic
2. Keep breathing, mainly out
3. Flare, Fins up against the ascent, hold on tight.
4. Dump air from your BC / Drysuit
5. Dump air from his BC / Drysuit
6. You are at the surface (you said 24 secs).
Get medical advice, odds on both of you are Ok.

 

[RJP]

I was wondering how many people would have said, I would let him go. I was asked that a few tmes. This was a situation I faced, and could have done many things different.

If you let him go you'd either be pulled to the surface by him holding your octo with a death-grip, or he'd yank the second stage off and then you'd BOTH have a free-flow.

 

[Diver0001]

Use your knife and slash his bladder. Or yank off his inflator hose - maybe just cut it. Whatever it takes to empty his BC (or drysuit), FAST!. Of course, that assumes you have control of your own BC - not a given in this scenario. Unfortunately, I would readily sacrifice my buddy's BC to my well being.

Dumping his BCD I can understand but puncturing or damaging it in an emergency is the LAST thing you should do.... In a situation like this your main goal is to get back to the surface safely and establish positive buoyancy. What you're suggesting is in my opinion highly inappropriate and would create a serious risk of killing the buddy by making him irreversibly negative. The risk of getting some kind of DCS by making a fast ascent is also serious but pales in comparison to what you're suggesting.

Maybe I'm way off base here but the way you're coming over in this post makes you sound like one of those people who would trample little children to get out of a burning building.... I don't know if that's how you want to come across but you're succeeding at it nonetheless.

R..

 

[beanojones]

My "buddy" was a divemaster and our dive was 85 fsw.

If a divemaster cannot ascend to the surface, from whatever (recreational) depth they are diving at, without assistance, then they be needing some more practice before they dive with other divers as a divemaster.

DM and instructors should always consider themselves to be diving solo (who's your buddy when you are teaching OW class or leading intro divers?), and be prepared as such.

 

[RAWalker]

First off I'd like to say great report.

My wife and I dive Air 2 style inflator octos and we both like them. So this is fairly relevent to us. My wife is more the newbie than I and she still has some buoyancy issues so I do stay very close and some times need to help stabilize her buoyancy. (pop a dump valve) This is particularly true if our dives are less than square. So I get some practice at controlling another divers buoyancy.

From your report I can see a few mistakes that I'd like to think I wouldn't make myself.

The first I believe:
With the number of dives you had logged the dry suit may have added an extra issue to your task load that as a wet diver I don't have to deal with.
Althought the comfort of the dry dive or the environment you were diving may have lead you to use the suit it may have been something better left until you had gained more experience. It certainly does alter your buoyancy characteristics and contributed to the uncontrolled accent.
Second thing I noticed from your report:
Once your buddy was breathing on your reg you are supposed to be in control of the dive.
All air should have been vented by both divers and then you proceed to swim to the surface.
If you follow this order of operations then your BC would be empty allowing you to breath off your safe secondary without the need to have a hand on it. This would allow you a free hand to control your buddies BCD and reach his shoulder dump or inflator. (if needed)

As for the person that suggested the long hose this would not have helped with controlling the accent. The long hose is suited to Cave or Wreck diving where the 2 divers may need to swim through but once in the clear the donor should still come in close and take control of the accent. The long hose at that point becomes a convienence and using it to distance the divers goes against formal training practices. (We are supposed to be at arms reach holding the other divers harness.) This is considered to be a emergency situation and should only be a few minutes of inconienence.

As for what you should do if you can not control the other diver... First thing is always keep yourself safe! This may allow you to offer assistance later which you wouldn't be able to offer if you become a second victim of the situation. So if need be pull away. You may end up towing the other divers drowned body to the surface and saving their life by performing artificial respiration. You can't do it if you are the second victim.

 

[bamamedic]

...As for the person that suggested the long hose this would not have helped with controlling the accent. The long hose is suited to Cave or Wreck diving where the 2 divers may need to swim through but once in the clear the donor should still come in close and take control of the accent. The long hose at that point becomes a convienence and using it to distance the divers goes against formal training practices. (We are supposed to be at arms reach holding the other divers harness.) This is considered to be a emergency situation and should only be a few minutes of inconienence.

As for what you should do if you can not control the other diver... First thing is always keep yourself safe! This may allow you to offer assistance later which you wouldn't be able to offer if you become a second victim of the situation. So if need be pull away. You may end up towing the other divers drowned body to the surface and saving their life by performing artificial respiration. You can't do it if you are the second victim.

About using the long hose....if it's my regular buddy and he doesn't seem to be panicking, I don't feel any need to get in close, get vertical, and hold his harness. The rare times that I've practiced air sharing in a close environment (for example, with a standard length hose and octo or AIR2) I actually felt much more anxious...with my personal space invaded and with no room to move, I felt out of control, and it was much harder to control my own buoyancy.

With a "team" that practices emergency drills together, an OOA emergency (whether from a roll off, freeflow, or other equipment malfunction) should only be an annoying inconvenience.

While using a long hose to create some distance between two divers goes against some agencies' formal training practices, in GUE training, it's actually discouraged to make contact with the OOA diver unless they are showing signs of panic or distress. Getting that up close and physical with someone can actually create more stress.

So, just because it isn't taught by the formal training agencies that you're familiar with, doesn't mean that it's not a perfectly valid and reasonable practice

OK, back to topic