What would you do? AITA?

[fullytek]

Nope, they didn't (in this hypothetical, anyway). The dive site being the location underwater that I'm paying to go to. If they reached the spot on the surface above the dive site and turned around, they never took me where I was paying to go, now did they?

So....if you offer a credit in return for a cancellation....why are you arguing with everybody who says you should give a credit or a refund? I am now thoroughly confused as to what you're even saying. As for your point of "you're paying for a boat ride" I assume you don't call yourself a guided tour or a lakeside cruise or anything, you call yourself a dive operator. Ergo, I'm paying for a dive. I could care less if I get out there by boat, plane, helicopter, or what. I'm paying to dive at this dive site. The boat ride is a component of that, but it's a means, not an end.

To use an analogy, what you're saying is similar to if a restaurant said "you're paying for us to cook the food, so if we drop it on the ground, you still pay for it, because we cooked it." I'm not paying for the restaurant to cook food. I'm paying for the restaurant to give me the food to eat. Cooking is only a single part of the process. If a dive outfit cancels a trip, that's like the waiter dropping your food. If you cancel or no show to the dive trip, that's like you dropping your food. One of them you still have to pay for it, the other one the restaurant does.

@boulderjohn I feel like the operator would only have to refund the people who showed up, top down if that makes sense. And yeah, maybe there are places where the weather is bad enough to justify the diver paying part of the cost, like Oriskany, which is a very long ride in very unpredictable water, but I feel like any business that fully puts that cost on the customer is just not doing it right. As I've said before, you gotta give people something, even if that's just a credit toward the next trip, or else they're fully justified in not wanting to do business with you any more.

I stopped reading about 3 lines in.

If we cancel due to wether then the boat doesn't leave the dock.

If the boat makes the trip the divers are paying..

If you pay for a guide to take you up Mount everest and you don't reach the summit, do you get a refund?

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

>Can't be bothered to read what I wrote.
>Still wastes time replying.

Yeah, we're done here.

 

[gamon]

If you pay for a guide to take you up Mount everest and you don't reach the summit, do you get a refund?

Terrible analogy. That's like saying a diver would not expect to pay if they were dropped on the Spiegel Grove but only dived the superstructure and didn't drop to the bottom to check out the landing bay.

Then again it's in line with other statements by this member including (paraphrasing here) "I'm not in it for the money" immediately followed by a confession, "I'm in it for the money" and "If you don't follow my selfish policies you're not a real diver and you're banned from my great always full boat forever" and "I'm not going to read your comments since they disagree with my preconceived notions as to what is reasonable" and "a diver who expects a refund for a canceled dive is putting money ahead of safety" and "we don't allow divers who don't appear to be physically fit to dive off our boats".

@boulderjohn I feel like the operator would only have to refund the people who showed up, top down if that makes sense.

Agree. No clue why it's even a question. Most charters clearly spell out their cancellation policy during the booking process. The window to cancel is usually between 24-48 hours. If a diver cancels within that window, no refunds, as clearly stated. Regardless of what happens later on. If a dive op cancels last minute or doesn't drop divers on a site, and wants to go the extra customer service mile they could contact the previously canceled diver(s) and offer a credit toward a future dive- but that is not to be expected.

The smart thing for a diver to do when the forecast is bad and they don't want to go out in rough seas, is to wait until the very last minute and see if the weather breaks or the dive charter cancels on them first.

 

[gamon]

Policy defines the company and to a large extent, pre-selects their customers.

Some may be perfectly fine with overly restrictive policies, others will give their cash to the nearest competitor who won't charge for a canceled dive that is not the fault of the diver. Dive ops who are the only game in town can be more restrictive, those with competitors on every block will probably struggle to fill their boats. Or maybe they're not doing it for the money such as @fullytek stated (but then immediately contradicted himself by admitting he IS doing it for the money).

I know what I would do and it's not "dive with the arrogant dive op who thinks they and their boat are better than everyone else's and if you don't follow their restrictive and unreasonable policies then you're not a real diver". They wouldn't even be at the bottom of my list.

 

[kinoons]

I still have a credit sitting for me on Rarotonga from pre-covid to covid for the world shutting down and a mom and pop saying they simply couldn’t afford to refund my deposit, but would hold the credit forever for us if we could again arrange a trip.

If the charter decides to cut my trip short for any reason, to include a medical emergency, I would expect something to try and make it even as I did not receive the dives I paid for. Now I’m open to what that may be - discount on future dives if possible. Perhaps 50% worth of swag from the shop, something to try and make it clear that while the shop/charter was unable to provide the paid for dives, that they value me as a customer, acknowledge I spent my cash with them, and that I should receive something for that money spent.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@kinoons Exactly! It's all about making the customer not feel like they got shafted.

 

[fullytek]

Hey why don't you ask the person who had the medical issue to refund you?

It's not the boat operators fault the diver is unhealthy?

 

[Zef]

Hey why don't you ask the person who had the medical issue to refund you?

It's not the boat operators fault the diver is unhealthy?

The boat operator is obligated to you and should reimburse you, and then since the other patron was the cause, the boat operator should seek reimbursement through them and/or their insurance if they so desire.

It's kind of like a multi-vehicle collision where you are hit from behind and pushed into the vehicle in front of you. The person in front of you (or their insurance) goes after you/your insurance for restitution and that becomes a part of your damages that you then seek restitution for from the person (and/or their insurance) that collided into your vehicle and pushed you forward.

In the car collision example, it would suck for you if the person who hit you didn't have insurance and had no money/assets to cover your loss, and you didn't have uninsured/under-insured motorist coverage on your policy....Basically you would be operating at your own financial risk....if a dive-op does not carry insurance to cover contingencies like medical events and the impact on their other paying customers, they are operating at their own financial risk and can be subject to out of pocket expense, especially in the unlikely scenario if the situation is litigated and a judgment found in favor of the diver(s) that brought the suit.

But, bottom line is it's the operator's responsibility/obligation to make their customer(s) whole, and then determine if and how they will seek restitution to make themselves whole.

-Z

 

[fullytek]

There's no such thing as lost charter revenue insurance.​

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The operator brought them to the dive site and back safely. They spent the time , burned the fuel, houred up the engines and assumed the tremendous liability. Maybe mercury credit will give them a brake on there outboard payments because they didn't make any money that day. Maybe loyds will give them free insurance. Maybe the dock space will be free.​

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Asking for a refund when someone may have been hurt is in poor taste and makes you an awful person.​

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The dive industry is in massive decline. As profits in the industry are scarce. You got one of 2 planned dives in you returned safely.​

Be thankful that there's an operator willing to take you out in the first place.​

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Stop being so selfish.​

 

[gamon]

Asking for a refund when someone may have been hurt is in poor taste and makes you an awful person.

I would request a refund even if someone died.