What value do you apply to skills?

[MikeBujak]

I’ve totally had by mask knocked off by another diver who decided dropping in on me and kicking me in the face was a good idea. Glad to have practised this skill so I could relatively calmly deal with it.

Also, whenever I laugh my mask floods. The answer clearly here is that I need to find more serious dive buddies, but in the meantime pleased I know how to clear my mask.

Interesting. I remember once when I was diving with my wife. We were both relatively new and she was kind of to my left and behind. I cannot remember why I did this but I wanted to pull her closer to me so I reach back and grabbed her to pull not realizing that instead of her BCD I had her regulator in my hand.

 

[northernone]

You may be missing the point of my post (or I am missing the point of yours). I know all the skills you learn have significant importance. Ok am wondering what value instructors out there give the skills during briefings. I ask for positive values because I believe the negative ones can unnecessarily scare new divers.

If you practiced taking your second stage out of your mouth for photo opportunities for example, in the event it is accidently knocked out of your mouth, you probably would have no problems recovering it. There are 2 values here for the regulator recovery skill, one is positive and one negative.

I've thought on it a little. You're suggesting it's a good goal to introduce the skills with enjoyable benefits how they will enhance your average dive experience. By learning them comfortably, if ever they are needed on a bad day, the diver will be confident to use the skills for the "negative reason". Shooting at targets prepares someone to shoot a foe if the need presents itself. That sort of training philosophy?

Maybe I come at them differently. They are all "keep me alive" skills. That's the value I assign when I introduce them.

My analogy is this: "Stop, drop and roll" fire drill. It can be introduced as useful for demonstrating to your pet how to do a trick and you can assign that value when teaching it. The student might become proficient learning the skill.... But if they catch fire, I doubt they'll remember their "dog training" trick learned. I like training with the same focus as we dive.

I tend to empathise the "do these things well to increase your odds of survival as a diver long-term" aspect of dive instruction. When I train new divers it is fun, but the skills are deadly serious. For context the majority of the diving is adaptive, but I've not scared anyone out of the water yet by presenting the realistic risks involved with our hobby.

For example when I demonstrate low pressure inflator disconnect, the value of why we master this involves a story of my buddy foaming blood from his mouth after an uncontrolled buoyant ascent (and a sidenote on basic inflator inspection, maintenance and servicing.) I can't imagine a "positive" reason to master the skill of rapid disconnect and dump... And I rarely meet divers who have mastered it. There is not always "fun" reason for skills that move us further away from getting hurt.

I'm more towards the view that downplaying or glossing over the risks involved in diving devalues the skills and reduces the importance of mastering them.

In short I am not in flavor of introducing a skill with a convenience value of X when it has a life or death value of Y to new divers.

Without real reasons, I think the skills might sound silly and somewhat pointless...

Maybe that clarifies a little? I'm not sure if I'm answering your question yet, or following the thought pattern well.

Cameron

 

[TMHeimer]

@MikeBujak why are you calling it a "negative" value?
As an instructor you want to emphasize real world values of the skills, if they exist.

Mask clears and mask-off skills-you have to emphasize that at some point, there mask will leak, will fog, and/or will get kicked off. Since that is a thing, they have to be able to clear their mask comfortably as well as perform tasks without their mask on. There is no positive/negative value, it's just value or not.

Remove Replace BCD underwater has in its entirety has no real "value" because it's not something most divers should ever have to do. It shows comfort in the water, comfort with the gear, etc, but the "value" is that you may need to adjust part of your gear while diving and if you can remove the entire thing, you can work with parts of it individually.

Doing this skill at the surface has real world value because you may need to hand your gear up to a boat hand, or have it handed to you depending on the boat/surface conditions etc.

Great post, as is Cameron's. The only time I ever had "value" in doffing the BC was to toss it up on a rocky shore due to cramping and surge. I've never had anything serious enough to solve to make it worth the bother of doffing and donning the BC underwater. Never had a mask kicked off. How does that happen--even in a large group?

 

[tbone1004]

Great post, as is Cameron's. The only time I ever had "value" in doffing the BC was to toss it up on a rocky shore due to cramping and surge. I've never had anything serious enough to solve to make it worth the bother of doffing and donning the BC underwater. Never had a mask kicked off. How does that happen--even in a large group?

I doff and don mine somewhat regularly if I'm testing prototype gear *backmount only, sidemount is too much of a PITA for that*, but don't do it otherwise.

Masks can get kicked off if you turn back and someones fin happens to be right there. I've also had it happen a few times when teaching

 

[MikeBujak]

I've thought on it a little. You're suggesting it's a good goal to introduce the skills with enjoyable benefits how they will enhance your average dive experience. By learning them comfortably, if ever they are needed on a bad day, the diver will be confident to use the skills for the "negative reason". Shooting at targets prepares someone to shoot a foe if the need presents itself. That sort of training philosophy?

Maybe I come at them differently. They are all "keep me alive" skills. That's the value I assign when I introduce them.

My analogy is this: "Stop, drop and roll" fire drill. It can be introduced as useful for demonstrating to your pet how to do a trick and you can assign that value when teaching it. The student might become proficient learning the skill.... But if they catch fire, I doubt they'll remember their "dog training" trick learned. I like training with the same focus as we dive.

I tend to empathise the "do these things well to increase your odds of survival as a diver long-term" aspect of dive instruction. When I train new divers it is fun, but the skills are deadly serious. For context the majority of the diving is adaptive, but I've not scared anyone out of the water yet by presenting the realistic risks involved with our hobby.

For example when I demonstrate low pressure inflator disconnect, the value of why we master this involves a story of my buddy foaming blood from his mouth after an uncontrolled buoyant ascent (and a sidenote on basic inflator inspection, maintenance and servicing.) I can't imagine a "positive" reason to master the skill of rapid disconnect and dump... And I rarely meet divers who have mastered it. There is not always "fun" reason for skills that move us further away from getting hurt.

I'm more towards the view that downplaying or glossing over the risks involved in diving devalues the skills and reduces the importance of mastering them.

In short I am not in flavor of introducing a skill with a convenience value of X when it has a life or death value of Y to new divers.

Without real reasons, I think the skills might sound silly and somewhat pointless...

Maybe that clarifies a little? I'm not sure if I'm answering your question yet, or following the thought pattern well.

Cameron

Excellent post! Thank you for your thoughts. I tend to agree that it is probably more beneficial to emphasize the importance of theses skills using real world risks, but I have been told several times during my DMC and now IDC that a positive spin on these skills should be used. When I am a full fledged instructor, I think I would lean a bit more towards the risks but for now I need to determine how a positive spin can be put on these skills. Your inflator hose is the perfect example in that I don't think there is a positive reason for disconnecting the hose unless you use the "for adjustment" spin.

As a side note, it seems that if you use the "for adjustment" spin enough you are basically letting them incorrectly read between the lines that if I miss something on my buddy check, no problem, I can do all the adjusting I need at the bottom.

 

[MikeBujak]

@MikeBujak why are you calling it a "negative" value?
As an instructor you want to emphasize real world values of the skills, if they exist.

Mask clears and mask-off skills-you have to emphasize that at some point, there mask will leak, will fog, and/or will get kicked off. Since that is a thing, they have to be able to clear their mask comfortably as well as perform tasks without their mask on. There is no positive/negative value, it's just value or not.

Remove Replace BCD underwater has in its entirety has no real "value" because it's not something most divers should ever have to do. It shows comfort in the water, comfort with the gear, etc, but the "value" is that you may need to adjust part of your gear while diving and if you can remove the entire thing, you can work with parts of it individually.

Doing this skill at the surface has real world value because you may need to hand your gear up to a boat hand, or have it handed to you depending on the boat/surface conditions etc.

What I mean by "negative value" is a value like having your mask kicked off, this isn't a positive thing to have happen and if you are with a student who is already a little nervous, the thought is that using values of this sort may get the student to second guess whether they want to diver or not.

 

[WillHartNZ]

You give whatever value you feel fits best. You want it to stick in your students mind and get them to buy into the idea of mastering the skill.

The value that works best for you won’t necessarily be the value that works for me. You’ve got your own experiences you can draw from to find how it was of value to you. Share your experiences with your students rather than regurgitating something just because it’s what your instructors taught you or someone else said you should.

 

[tbone1004]

What I mean by "negative value" is a value like having your mask kicked off, this isn't a positive thing to have happen and if you are with a student who is already a little nervous, the thought is that using values of this sort may get the student to second guess whether they want to diver or not.

eh, I argue that what you're referring to as "negative" values are the real reasons to have to learn how to do it and those are the ones you need to emphasize. The other ones are just "perks"

 

[shurite7]

Great post, as is Cameron's. The only time I ever had "value" in doffing the BC was to toss it up on a rocky shore due to cramping and surge. I've never had anything serious enough to solve to make it worth the bother of doffing and donning the BC underwater. Never had a mask kicked off. How does that happen--even in a large group?

You are a lucky diver not to have your mask dislodged or not have to remove your BCD. Within my first twenty divers after basic certification my mask was knocked off and regulator pulled out of my mouth by another diver while swimming through a swim-through in Cozumel. Years later, during my first year of teaching one my students swam over me accidently hooking my mask and pulling it off.

A great value for removing BCD underwater is when one's tank slips through the tank strap. I've witnessed a couple of people who took off their BCD, underwater, put the tank back into the strap and then put their scuba gear back on. I've taken mine off to squeeze through small places. I've also taken mine off so that nothing was on me. It feels really good to have no weight on my back after I injured it.

Every skill has a positive value and real world experience. I like to emphasize both.