what type of kick works with what type of fin?

[Narced]

So to answer your question, yes i have used split fins on about 200+ dives [/B]

What fins have you used? I am just curious why you feel splits are not maneuverable. I have dove with several paddles and recently switched to using bio-fins for most dives. I have found them to be extremely maneuverable in addition to the straight lines you spoke of. They do take a bit of getting used to, but with 200+ dives on splits I don't think that would be your issue with them.

I would agree that there are paddle fins out there that do outperform the splits in different situations (the reason I still have paddles for overhead and silty environments). I am just cinfused by your blanket statement that split fins are useless. They certainly are not, nor are the paddles.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Burke
I guess nobody noticed that part.

But really now Burke... did you think it was possible to throw that bone out into the yard and not have the boys fight over it

 

[sheck33]

Originally posted by Narced


What fins have you used? I am just curious why you feel splits are not maneuverable. I have dove with several paddles and recently switched to using bio-fins for most dives. I have found them to be extremely maneuverable in addition to the straight lines you spoke of. They do take a bit of getting used to, but with 200+ dives on splits I don't think that would be your issue with them.

I would agree that there are paddle fins out there that do outperform the splits in different situations (the reason I still have paddles for overhead and silty environments). I am just cinfused by your blanket statement that split fins are useless. They certainly are not, nor are the paddles.

I am sorry, i should have been more specific rather than the crude statement i made. The statement i made i made out of my own experience. But tell me then, you mention paddle fins are the fins to use for overhead diving why would you not also use them in ocean diving? The advantages you see with paddle fins are not limited to overhead i am sure. Plus i have found it easier to use the same gear no matter where i dive, i dive doubles now and if i where to go cavediving there would be very little i'd have to add to my gear as it is now, of course i'd have to get cavetraining first ;-)

 

[Narced]

sheck-in my case i simply seem to use ALOT less air with the split than with paddles. For most OW dives (and even most wrecking) I can use the splits with the small flutter kick to get around, and scull if necessary to hold position (ie for photography).

The only reason I mention that the paddles might be better for overhead is that I at least cannot get a decent frog kick with the splits. I have not actually been in an overhead environment since using the splits, but would probably be more comfortable witha fin i can frog kick so as not to stir up silt.

hopefully this explains my attitude towards the splits. I feel they are extremely useful for somoe people. For those people, including myself, the splits can be used most anywhere. If I was to go into an overhead tomorrow, I cannot honestly tell you which fin I would use, but suspect I would use the paddle just for piece of mind.

 

[AllenG]

Preparing to go on a dive trip with my new Tusa Xpert Zoom fins, I thought this thread would answer all my questions re the most effective fin techniques. Skipping past the running debate of split vs. paddle, I'm still unclear as to what techniques will work best. I did see another thread that, through the 5th Dimension training videos, demonstrated the modified flutter, frog, and modified frog kicks, but didn't get a clear answer on that thread. The flutter, kicking from the knees, just looks plain inefficient, but you see lots of folks with this kick, so go figure!

My predominant fin technique with blades has been a scissor motion from the hip, with knees locked straight and ankles extended to keep each fin in a straight line from the hip to the leg to the tip of the fin. I don't see many folks dive with this technique, but it's what I was taught many years ago and it just became habit.

And so now I ask only of those who do like and use splits, can you describe the kick style that works for you?

 

[divernva]

AllenG,

You skipped over too many messages. A lot of folks have mentioned splits work well with short flutter kicks. Similar to the kick you describe.

As for no one using your stroke, I'm sure everyone in OW is taught that way... they just aren't doing it properly. Not to mention that they are probably overweighted which creates poor positioning in the water.

If you're looking at the modified kicks on the FifthD site, they will not work effectively with split fins. Enlightenment comes from seeing the dynamics of the fins on video, or in my case, following someone trying to perform these kicks The modified kicks are very efficient when you're in the same horizontal, neutral position depicted in the videos. If you're too heavy, and your knees are drooping, these kicks aren't a good fit.

Each modified kick has a purpose, the frog kick is the primary kick. The modified flutter and frog are for tight spaces. Backward kick is obvious. Helicopter turns are for tight quarters as well. Notice that they don't scull with their hands in the videos. These kciks propell water directly back, as opposed the traditional flutter kick which is usually down (keep in mind overwieighted, and drooping knees). They reduce the possibility of stirring up silt above or below. These kicks are generally not meant for speeding through the water.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I recently saw an add in a dive magazine in which a "well known" cave diver and explorer endorse the use of split fins for cave diving. Because the idea seems so foreigh to me I sent him an e-mail. Below is a copy with the name removed. I will post the response if I get one.

Mr So and So

I am an active, NACD trained, cave diver. I am also an IANTD and a PADI instructor. I have tried split fins and have tried to teach propper finning/antisilting technique to students using them with little success. I recently saw a magazine advertisement where you endorse the use of split fins for cave diving. I have never seen a pair of split fins in a cave. I don't believe a have ever met a cave instructor who would allow a student to use them in a cave. Do you really use these fins in a cave? How do they perform in flow? Do you get adequate thrust and control when using a modified frog, frog or modified flutter/shuffle? Do you recommend them to your cave diving students? I am really curious as to why they would work so well for you and not for the rest of us and would value any insight you could provide on the subject.

Regards,
Mike Ferrara