What type of BC for instructors?

[mth71]

As the heading suggests, this question is aimed more toward instructors, although other divers who have something to share are of course welcome to give their input.

As a newly certified diver (as of September), I am looking to get my first set of gear very shortly. After much research on this board, I have decided that I want a BP setup. I've also decided that I want to become a scuba instructor, and plan on starting my divemaster training just as soon as the waters warm up (I live in Wichita, KS, and my training will be in Beaver Lake, Arkansas). Since I'll be starting my DM training shortly after I purchase my equipment, I want to be sure that I'll be able to instruct without having to buy different equipment. Since students (always?) use a regular jacket style BC, would it be better for me to hold off on getting my BP setup for now and just go with the jacket style in order to instruct?

Are there any instructors out there who teach with a BW while their students use a jacket type? If so, what kind of results are you getting? It seems that such a situation would cause a great deal of confusion to the students, especially during the exercises when the instructors dons his/her equipment (is that possible to do fairly easily with a BP?)

Also, since I have yet to take the Rescue Diver course, whoever my partner ends up being would have to know how to get me out of a BP setup which, as I understand, is not the easiest or most obvious thing to do if he/she is used to only a jacket style (chances are I will not know my partner until we're at the lake).

I'd really prefer to get my BP setup as my first equipment, but since I'm planning on getting into instructing as soon as possible, perhaps that wouldn't be the wisest choice right now. If that's the case, I have already researched, to the best of my ability, what I would get in a jacket style, though I honestly don't want one if I could get by without.

Any advice or tips or words of wisdom?

Thank you in advance to those of you who provide your input. I've received some great info on this site.

 

[ckharlan66]

I am not an instructor and I don't even play one on TV but just a thought.

If you instruct you might be required by the shop you teach through, assuming you teach through a shop, to use the equipment they sell.

MikeFerarra teaches with a plate so he might be able to help on that front.

I am sure you will be more valuable input soon.

Good luck.

Chad

 

[mth71]

I think I may have accidentally posted this question twice while I intended on going back to edit it. If so, I apoligize.

ckharlan66, thank you for the (quick!) response. That's a good point that I hadn't thought about yet, as I will be teaching through a shop (initially anyway).

Hopefully FredT (whom I was written to when I was researching BP's) will see this post and offer his expertise.

I appreciate your input.

Mark

 

[ckharlan66]

Oh and the other option might be to get the in between choice and get a back inflate. It operates as a jacket with some of the features of the wing.

Personally I would get what you want now and then worry about what you need as an instructor later. That will be awhile off and you will get a lot of diving in with what you buy now even if you deside to switch later.

Chad

 

[ElectricZombie]

I teach and dive in a BP and wing. It has not presented any problems. The BP should not be a problem for a rescue class IF you inform your buddy how your gear works, etc. It does not seem to take a lot longer to get out of if you practice.

If a shop will not let you teach using the gear you feel comfortable with, you probably should not be teaching for them.

If you do it right the first time and get a BP/Wing setup, you will never have to buy another BC.

You do not want to end up buying all your gear twice like I and many others did.

If you like the BP/Wing setup, then by all means get that.

 

[leadweight]

It's deja vu allover again!

We had this thread.

ElectricZombie said:

"If a shop will not let you teach using the gear you feel comfortable with, you probably should not be teaching for them."

I must disagree. This is about work. A professional does what he has to do. IMO, an instructor should be comfortable in any kind of gear when teaching in a recreational enviornment. An instructor that is so uncomfortble in something other than his favorite choice of gear that it would keep him from accepting an otherwise desirable position, is disadvantaging himself.

Buying things twice. Been over that one before. It implies that the choice is the only choice for all applications at all times in a diver's life, nothing will change and nothing better will ever come along. High pressure sales talk.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yes it is about work. And with that thought if a student gets all the info I give in a class and has practice applying it then...they will refuse to look at much of the gear that is on the market. when drag, position and balance (especially in cold water with significant balast) are considered most of the cutsy jackets with designer pockets and tons of d-rings will be eliminated from possible choices. Since this covers much of what the major manufacturers insist that the shop sell there is a problem.

I really doubt that many shops would let me give the lecture on balance and trim and how to get it done. Most wouldn't have the tools or allow the time to get it done in the pool. And if they did allow for it it would cause sales to drop because the class would illustrate just what junk was hanging on the wall. This is what would prevent me from teaching for them not the fact that they didn't let me wear a plate.

I see hundreds and hundreds of students every year and vertually all swim at a 45 deg angle and sink when they stop kicking. Their instructors are the ones who insist on the jacket.

Off the subject most students I see these days have their alternates and gauges dangling. Most of the divers I see on TV are this way. All the pictures and film I have from resorts show most divers this way. Perhaps someone who teaches this can comment. Page 44 of the latest "Sport Diver" mag has a two page picture of a class entering the water equiped that way. Can anyone explain it? BTW, notice the guy on the left his jacket soesn't even fit. Look at the giant weight belts. Do you see or expect to see any other balast that would allow proper balance? These divers will never now way no how be anywhere near horizontal. they will work twice as hard as they should through the entire dive. That is exactly what I see in most classes I watch. Sorry but I don't think I would let the gamoke who owns that shop tell me what to wear when diving or teaching.

 

[leadweight]

Mike,

I have seen all the things that you have seen. Taken collectively, it could be called bad form. Fortunately, the main result is wasted air. Rants to the contrary, diving is very safe, something like 1 injury per 10,000 dives. Danglies don't help reefs, but this is mainly an individual diver issue and not a jacket vs something else thing. I see divers in jackets with good and bad trim. Most new jackets have trim pockets which help if they are used. Having the right amount of weight is not a jacket vs something else issue. Any diver can be overweighted.

Other people have said it before, there needs to be a way for divers to improve that is not as extensive and rigorous as the GUE method.

Teaching to high standards will help, but getting into a lot of doctrine about what gear is best will not. Sure, some stuff is better than other stuff. But, in a recerational enviornment most of it can be made to work. Lance Armstrong's book has the title, "Its Not About The Bike". Perhaps its not about the gear. (OK, for technical diving the rules are different.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

leadweight,

I of course agree that it isn't all about gear. However, the way many shops teach and the equipment used for student is IMO is very much about gear and gear sales. A diver can be safe and responsible in a jacket even though I don't think it's the best choice. I also believe that an instructor can teach responsibly using jackets but they will certainly be using the trim pockets, tank weights and all manor of little tricks. I usually just see belts with a bunch of lead on them.

I also believe that divers can be given a much better start than many get without a overly long or demanding class. A little more practice time, the introduction of a few ideas that are often left out and a little more attention to detail will usually get the most important things done IMO.

One popular opinion that I strongly disagree with though is the idea that the biggest result of poor skills is wasted air. Poor skills, specifically buoyancy control figure prominently in accidents. While the incedent rate is still seemingly low I believe that most are easily avoidable. If an injury is easily avoidable and we chose not to avoid it is it par for the course because there aren't many of them or is it a crime because we didn't bother to do our job? The basic skills are not hard to become reasonably proficient in and I think the industry as a whole is doing a disservice by not conveying the importance of them. We whitewash it by saying driving is more dangerous and diving is as dangerous as bowling. Maybe as far as incedent rates that is true but I have never seen someone spit out their lungs in a bowling alley.

My real point here is that given the state of in dive training there aren't many shop owners who I would want teaching advice from. I do have a tendancy to associate the jacket to the jacka$$ and that view is a little extreme but seems to fit often enough.

 

[MartiniTime]

I guess I will comment on this. Do not wear a BP wing setup to take your IDC / IE if you are going to be a PADI instructor. No questions about, do not do it.

I dive with BP/wing, I also own a back inflate BC. I primarily teach OW classes in a standard BC, and I use my BP/wing for classes beyond that.

The right tool for the right job. Dont confuse your students anymore than they already are.

Also I'd like to point out you just started diving, you will go through lots of different types of gear in your treck torwards being an instructor. Its not really an issue now. try everything.