What should I have done?

[MXGratefulDiver]

unless I clearly indicated it was something else (like when my tank came off at that depth, and I kept pointing to it

Yep, your dive buddies can be really dense sometimes ... especially when somewhat narc'ed ... :11:

This is going totally off-track but for the heck of it, if you did feel the first signs of heart attack under water what would you sign if anything? (Sign, is the question, it's obvious you'd start getting out of there)

Banging on your chest is going to be a little misleading for starters....

(Let me add, we should not have a special sign for this but what would you sign)

Related incident ... I once had something called a PVC (where the heart skips a beat or two) whilst kicking into a stiff current. Having not ever experienced one before, it got my attention pronto.

I signaled my buddy, gave a "rocking hand" (I'm not OK) signal followed by several quick thumps against the chest and two thumbs up.

He got the message clearly ... we began our ascent right away.

Turned out to be nothing serious ... but I didn't know that at the time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Charlie99]

I guess I am just too talkative. I want to express that this is emergency versus I just want out. It will also mean that don't expect any luxury 40/30ft stops etc which I am sure in your thumbing would become obvious at those points too.

Going to zero buddy distance, establishing touch contact, vigorous double thumbs up all convey urgency.

If you are still conscious at the 40' stop you just vigorously signal up, up up. Hopefully, if you're not conscious at that point, your buddy will have figured out that deco not truly truly mandatory ought to be skipped.

 

[bubba105]

Great thread. I hope you don't mind me commenting, I'm not DIR.

Anyway, I've been a fireman in NYC for 25 years and this immediately brought me to what we do after every fire. We sit in the kitchen and critique what we did. Everyone gets his/her chance to speak. I ask all my guys what they think they could have done to make things work more smoothly. It took a while but now we open up and admit to sometimes not adapting to situations as quickly as we should. Hopefully, everybody learns something.

You were given a freebee on this one. Thank God this didn't happen at 170 feet. Peter, by throwing this out without holding anything back and telling everyone your thought processes, you have given a gift to everyone who reads this, especially the DIR crowd who work in teams. In the leasure of this forum it became obvious what the move was but in that split second when the wheels come off the cart, we sometimes become spectators. A lot of people have commented about not liking 4's. Well, this makes for a perfect critique.

BTW, is there a DIR presense on the East coast. I've asked everyone I know and I'm the only one who's heard of it. Not that I think I could talk my wife into it.

Oh, if I wasn't supposed to comment...:mooner:

 

[rjack321]

I understand your approach. I guess I am just too talkative. I want to express that this is emergency versus I just want out. It will also mean that don't expect any luxury 40/30ft stops etc which I am sure in your thumbing would become obvious at those points too. Thumbing to me (normally) would not mean blowing safeties etc.

The "problem" with being talkative is that meaning can get lost. And in all the various signs, urgency or relative importance can get lost too. I avoid lots of extraneous communication.

For the heart attack like thing....
Thump chest, rock hand not ok, double thumbs.
Heart,
not ok,
up now!

If the buddy starts doing stops and you feel this is so urgent a situation that blowing through them is warranted.

Then:
give the level off sign (palm down - hand goes back and forth left and right),
wag index finger :no ,
thump chest,
rock hand,
double thumb.

=
stops
no
heart
not good
ascend now!

 

[Blitz]

Minimum chatter and little room for interpretation. I have to agree with Richard.

The "problem" with being talkative is that meaning can get lost. And in all the various signs, urgency or relative importance can get lost too. I avoid lots of extraneous communication.

For the heart attack like thing....
Thump chest, rock hand not ok, double thumbs.
Heart,
not ok,
up now!

If the buddy starts doing stops and you feel this is so urgent a situation that blowing through them is warranted.

Then:
give the level off sign (palm down - hand goes back and forth left and right),
wag index finger :no ,
thump chest,
rock hand,
double thumb.

=
stops
no
heart
not good
ascend now!

 

[Charlie99]

The "problem" with being talkative is that meaning can get lost. And in all the various signs, urgency or relative importance can get lost too. I avoid lots of extraneous communication.

.............

If the buddy starts doing stops and you feel this is so urgent a situation that blowing through them is warranted.

Then:
give the level off sign (palm down - hand goes back and forth left and right),
wag index finger :no ,
thump chest,
rock hand,
double thumb.

=
stops
no
heart
not good
ascend now!

I'm a simple man. (What an opening for cheap shots. )

If my buddy is doing an optional stop and I need to surface immediately, the signal is simply UP, UP, UP and then slowly starting to do so. Even the hand rocking or finger waggling "so so /not OK" is somewhat optional.

Am I correct in assuming that a straightforward, no nonsense response like that is DIR?

 

[Peter Guy]

bubba -- I am NOT a DIR diver and have no desire to ever be known/called a DIR diver, so not to worry about chiming in.

This thread (and the dive itself) have been valuable to me (I believe) BECAUSE it has given me time to assess and reassess what happened and what I could have/should have done differently. To a great extent this shows/proves the value of training -- not training that has gone well but the best kind -- training that didn't go well.

The next time I'm in something akin to this scenario I'll have some type of pre-existing plan for how to deal with the situation. Having been drilled and drilled "not to leave my buddy" it was very hard to contemplate splitting off.

I'm quite sure I'll handle the situation more safely next time.

 

[mdb]

Great thread. I hope you don't mind me commenting, I'm not DIR.

Anyway, I've been a fireman in NYC for 25 years and this immediately brought me to what we do after every fire. We sit in the kitchen and critique what we did. Everyone gets his/her chance to speak. I ask all my guys what they think they could have done to make things work more smoothly. It took a while but now we open up and admit to sometimes not adapting to situations as quickly as we should. Hopefully, everybody learns something.

You were given a freebee on this one. Thank God this didn't happen at 170 feet. Peter, by throwing this out without holding anything back and telling everyone your thought processes, you have given a gift to everyone who reads this, especially the DIR crowd who work in teams. In the leasure of this forum it became obvious what the move was but in that split second when the wheels come off the cart, we sometimes become spectators. A lot of people have commented about not liking 4's. Well, this makes for a perfect critique.

BTW, is there a DIR presense on the East coast. I've asked everyone I know and I'm the only one who's heard of it. Not that I think I could talk my wife into it.

Oh, if I wasn't supposed to comment...:mooner:

Bubba: good comment. Thank you for serving with the FDNY. We have two sons in NYC, one @ NYU and his brother @ CUNY. Thank God for you.

Anyhow, this thread is, as you mentioned, a very good one. The divers involved came forward and talked about the incident. Follow up comments have also been very good. I think we are all learning. Not such a bad thing.

 

[rjack321]

I'm a simple man. (What an opening for cheap shots. )

If my buddy is doing an optional stop and I need to surface immediately, the signal is simply UP, UP, UP and then slowly starting to do so. Even the hand rocking or finger waggling "so so /not OK" is somewhat optional.

Am I correct in assuming that a straightforward, no nonsense response like that is DIR?

Well yes, I was somewhat compromising.

I do think you need enough information to communicate that this is an urgent situation that can't be solved underwater. 'Cause some of us would look at you like "I know up, we're going up" what more can we do? :huh:

Those of use who "use DIR" on technical dives have a different mindset, we solve problems UW. So somehow you need to communicate that this is an unsolvable emergency. Requiring immediate ascent at the risk of DCS. I am trying to be "universal" here and not have differing emergency signals for no deco dives vs. deco dives.

vs. I just have to pee really really bad.

 

[edparris]

BTW, is there a DIR presense on the East coast. I've asked everyone I know and I'm the only one who's heard of it. Not that I think I could talk my wife into it.

Check out http://www.ne-ue.com . The local instructors are Bob Sherwood and Ed Hayes. I wouldn't bother trying to talk anyone into this kind of thing. Just go diving with these guys sometime and see if you enjoy yourself.