What makes us think we can trust any of them

[Uncle Pug]

Charlie... we've dove together before. The subject deserves serious discussion. You are a good diver... bring something to the table.

DWT... comparing regulator usage (required for scuba) to ascent indicators (not required for scuba) is not helpful. Where do I draw the line? It is more a matter of where do I set the bar. Some set the bar, skill wise, much lower than others.

For those whose interest has been piqued in advancing their skill level... super.

 

[DivesWithTurtles]

Charlie, no need to mock. We've dove together before. The subject deserves serious discussion. Bring something to the table.

DWT... comparing regulator usage (required for scuba) to ascent indicators (not required for scuba) is not helpful. Where do I draw the line? It is more a matter of where do I set the bar. Some set the bar, skill wise, much lower than others.

For those whose interest has been piqued in advancing their skill level... super.

Charlie, I'd sign up for your DIRF course. Despite the fact that it seems to ruffle Uncle Pug, I thought that thread was a great bit of sarcasm very well targeted.

UP, yes the regs stuff was overboard. The depth gauge stuff was supposed to be as well, but reconsidering it, you probably could do just fine without one, so why do you use one? They are not as reliable as your situational awareness, and may rot your senses' abilities to be without one. Isn't it just a tool of convenience for you? You do estimate time with great accuracy. And you do estimate changes in depth by acute situational awareness. If need be, you could get by without a timer or a depth guage. And if don't need them, wouldn't you be better prepared for when you don't have them if you never used them? Or do you consider them essential?

Charlie was being sarcastic. As stupid as it may seem on the surface, I'm really asking these questions in earnest.

Regarding the skill bar, do you feel that the superior skills that you expect of yourself (and do achieve) are appropriate for all divers? I'm not sure that I'm phrasing that quite correctly. Do you think that the level of your bar is necessary for all divers to dive safely and enjoyably?

 

[Snowbear]

Regarding the skill bar, do you feel that the superior skills that you expect of yourself (and do achieve) are appropriate for all divers? I'm not sure that I'm phrasing that quite correctly. Do you think that the level of your bar is necessary for all divers to dive safely and enjoyably?

Not answering for Pug, but from my own perspective.... Yes, the skills bar I set for myself is certainly appropriate for all divers, whether twice a year recreational divers or technical cave and rec divers. Is this level necessary for all divers? Well, I can't answer for them either, but I find that having and continually working toward the competancy bar I have set for myself has not only made my dives safer, but has made them much more enjoyable as well

 

[Uncle Pug]

As stupid as it may seem on the surface, I'm really asking these questions in earnest.

Are you? It really doesn't seem that you are. But to answer your questions anyway... yes, I can accurately judge my time, depth and gas usage without reference to a timer, depth gauge or spg. I still carry them and reference them periodically during a dive (unless I forget to bring the time/depth gauge.)

Do you think that the level of your bar is necessary for all divers to dive safely and enjoyably?

No. But then there are those who relish rising above the lowest common denominator.

 

[DivesWithTurtles]

Are you? It really doesn't seem that you are. But to answer your questions anyway... yes, I can accurately judge my time, depth and gas usage without reference to a timer, depth gauge or spg. I still carry them and reference them periodically during a dive (unless I forget to bring the time/depth guage.)

I really am sincere with these questions. I've got learning to do here.

Yes, you can accurately judge. But you reference them anyway. As a regular check on your judgement, I'll assume. Yet other gauges (ascent meter, decompression meter) that could be used as a similar judgement check are bad. That is because they are inaccurate? Or just because they can become a crutch?

You've explained this many a time. And I've read those explanations. I need it banged home again. Some gauges are not necessary but are a sanity check, and some gauges are not necessary and are a crutch. Right?

No. But then there are those who relish rising above the lowest common denominator.

I honor that. With limited time (and resources) to dive, I tend toward compromising skills development in favor of instant gratification, leaving me closer to that lowest common denominator than I should be. I may start changing that soon. But, geez, I love just drifting along the reef, and I'm not excited by drilling.

 

[Snowbear]

...I tend toward compromising skills development in favor of instant gratification...
... But, geez, I love just drifting along the reef, and I'm not excited by drilling.

Once you've spent a few dives doing it, it's amazing how far a few skills drills at the end of a couple of fun dives go towards making the future dives a whole lot more gratifying

 

[Uncle Pug]

Gauges and computers are tools that can be used or misused... they can also fail.

The best use for them is establishing a baseline from which you atune your senses to the dive. The tool becomes a reference check rather than the controlling source of information.

 

[DivesWithTurtles]

Bear and Pug, thanks for outstanding answers. Eastcoast bedtime. G'night.

 

[jeckyll]

As I'm continuing to follow this thread, I can't help but think:
"A computer will get you bent the same way that a radar detector will get you tickets"

Not sure if that rings true for anyone else.

 

[StSomewhere]

Regarding the skill bar, do you feel that the superior skills that you expect of yourself (and do achieve) are appropriate for all divers? I'm not sure that I'm phrasing that quite correctly. Do you think that the level of your bar is necessary for all divers to dive safely and enjoyably?

Turn that question on its head. Do you think that most openwater divers with mediocre or even deficient skills find their diving all that safe or enjoyable? I know I didn't. So what's wrong if a small subset wants to improve thier skillset to the extent that they control thier dive within their own limits rather than blindly trusting the NDL number on their computer?

There is a big difference between using a gauge as a reference point and flying a dive computer down to the NDL and on up to whatever safety stop it says I should do (and, oh-by-the-way, which computer gives me a couple extra minutes of bottom time?)...

Regards,
John