What is typical in an open water course these days?

[Eric Sedletzky]

Good and talented students can definately get through the skills in 80 min but I think it's bit of a rush. I wonder what John does with them for 8 hours. Some older instructors do a lot of story telling and over-explaining... I've seen that and it costs a lot of time.

It ‘might’ be possible to get one student through the skills in 80 minutes, but it would be one on one and the instructor would have to race through the skills one after another.
What about when you have 6 or 8 students?
Each one has to perform the skills (to a satisfactory level) while the others wait around for their turn again. Maybe that’s where the 8 hours comes in?

 

[boulderjohn]

Good and talented students can definately get through the skills in 80 min but I think it's bit of a rush. I wonder what John does with them for 8 hours. Some older instructors do a lot of story telling and over-explaining... I've seen that and it costs a lot of time.

Well, a class with nothing but good and talented students is rare. A class of, say, 6 people will have a variety of ability levels to start, and the slowest ones have the biggest impact on time.

Here are a couple of points points to highlight.

• Students have to be shown how to set up their gear and their weight systems. They then have to take their gear apart and set it up again a total of 5 times in the course. They don't need to do it five times to learn it. They learn it the first time. They do the repetitions so they will remember it. Have you ever seen a ScubaBoard thread in which people mention seeing divers who could not set up their gear? That all takes quite a while.
• Students need to do a 200 meter swim and a 10 minute float. That takes quite a while. The 10 minute float takes 1/8 of what you seem to think is all that is necessary for pool time.
• The course calls for extensive periods of free, neutral buoyancy swimming. The time for this is not mentioned, but during those swims, students are supposed to be approached and asked for their gas levels. They are supposed to respond with reasonable accuracy without looking because they had only recently checked on their own. That implies a pretty considerable time. I came to believe that the more time spent on this, the better. IT makes a huge difference in their learning of buoyancy. Instructors who rush students through skills end up with students who may be able to clear a mask but can't swim neutrally worth a damn.

 

[berndo]

What about when you have 6 or 8 students?

I only ever did one class with 7 students, I think. Most classes were 1-4. I think 80 min is really pushing it. Standard is usually half a day with about 3 hours in the water. I wouldn't wanna plan with only 80 min, even with just one student.
If someone has issue, you'll have to do another session. Which I reckon I had maybe 4-5 times out of a 100 students, IIRC. I haven't done any class in 8 or 10 years though.

Have you ever seen a ScubaBoard thread in which people mention seeing divers who could not set up their gear?

I haven't seen the thread but I've seen people who couldn't remember because they didn't dive for a while. Like the people who did their OWD and than didn't dive for a year or two.

 

[DiveProKoko]

I teach at an SSI shop and am an SSI OWSI. We limit class size to 6 (up to 8 in very rare occasions), and have an AI or DM in the water with us at all times. We're landlocked and break up our training into 5 pool/classroom sessions and two separate days of OW dives, with an agency mandated 4 OW dives minimum. If we can get in a 5th "fun dive", we do it. We typically meet once or twice per week. The pool/classroom sessions are about 3 hours in length (so about 15 hours in pool time). SSI has digital learning tools that students complete as a self-study program. The classroom portion in the shop is to answer any questions students may have had in their online learning for that week's lesson and to touch on the most important aspects of each section. We teach in a neutrally buoyant position in proper trim.....and most importantly, we have fun!

 

[The Chairman]

Some older instructors do a lot of story telling and over-explaining... I've seen that and it costs a lot of time.

Younger and older do this. Too often they tell the back story of why the skill was invented. Most skills don't need explanations: they need to be demonstrated well. However, I see plenty of younger instructors not allow for enough time nor enough guidance to master a skill. It's a race to see how quickly they can get their students out of the pool. I guess that's true for some older instructors as well.

There is no need for stories of daring do in the pool. Stick to the skills. Hone the skills. Challenge the skills. Keep it fun, not full of yourself.

 

[The Chairman]

you'll have to do another session.

Muscle memory favors 2 sessions. Fatigue favors no more than 4 hours a day. Throw in cold and all bets are off. You can't teach anyone when they are uncomfortable (cold), or worn out, which is why I always teach trim and neutral buoyancy after I teach mask clearing in the kiddie pool.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The YMCA used to require a minimum of 12 hours in the pool. 16 was recommended. This included two sessions or 2 hours to do the swims (surface and underwater), tread/floats, then weighting and buoyancy control using lung volume with free diving skills, and mask, remove, replace while swimming and clear the snorkel as they surfaced.
SEI kept that when I crossed over from the Y.
Until they could clear the mask and snorkel during that last swim, they weren't even introduced to doing it on scuba. When I taught I carried the Y methods to SEI and then to my SDI classes.
First session on SCUBA focused on proper weighting, neutral and horizontal using the BC and lung volume. Then when they had that we'd start on mask and reg skills. Followed by 20 minutes of free swimming where they were encouraged to practice the skills they had just done.
Every session after that began with a weight check that they were expected to do themselves, horizontal descent stopping just off the bottom, then repeat the mask r&r, reg recovery, and we added skills from that point, weight belt adjust then remove and replace, reg recovery using reach and sweep methods.
We'd add the gear remove and replace on the surface and then submerged. Alternate air source use. Alternate air source swim and ascent. No mask swims and ascents while sharing air. Station breathing - dump gear in corners, on signal swim to other gear and don it. After so many evolutions they don whatever gear they end up at and get it neutral and swim and ascend with it.
And at the end of every session there was free swim time.
Next to last session was all task loading drills. Gear exchange while sharing air, bailout drill -sit on pool edge with all gear held in lap and reg in. Fall in and don gear as you are falling in. More mask, reg, and air share drills. This was also where we used to do the don and doff until they said we couldn;t do that any longer after someone (who was not a student of an SIE instructor) saw a class doing it, tried it and embolized and died. Screwed up a fantastic confidence and task loading drill that was also a lot of fun!
Last session was all rescue skills. Panicked diver at the surface, non responsive diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear, and supporting a diver at the surface while assisting them to achieve positive buoyancy.
No more than 2 hours at a time in water because even with a suit, they would start to get chilled and tired. When that happens the learning, and more important the retention, of information suffers and stops. So that's why my OW classes were 6-8 pool sessions over as many weeks. And that's with no more than 2 students because I refused to rush anyone and they had to do each skill a minimum of a dozen times for basics and 2-3 for others like the gear remove and replace before I'd even consider taking them to open water.
Fortunately I had virtually unlimited pool access and I set the schedule. Not a shop.
I also had zero interest in putting a lot of people in the water. I turned away those who did not want to take the time I required for my classes. There are too many people in the water who should still be in the pool. I was not putting my name on a card of a diver not ready to be independent, qualified, safe, and competent. I made sure no one needed a DM to hold their hand and told them not to trust DMs to plan their dives or keep them safe.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

What on earth did you practice on land??

Basic navigation / compass skills was one item. We had an open soccer field outside the school pool we used. I would have students drape their reg set (with console compass) over their shoulders, drop a marker in the grass, put the towel over their heads so that they couldn't see which direction they were walking, then have them walk 50 paces then do a basic reciprocal back to the marker using their compass. Same thing with more complex nav courses in the advanced courses.

 

[Cthippo]

I think part of it us time management. Yeah, we had three one-hour pool sessions, but if our pool time started at 1400 we were meeting at the shop at 1300, at the pool at 1320 and fully ready to splash at 1400. No time wasted setting up gear or getting dressed.

I understood the 80 minutes to be actual time in the water if you are losing 20 minutes of each hour herding people into their gear and into the water.

As for adequacy, I was actually fairly bored during the pool sessions. I think I could have covered the required material in two rather than three sessions, but I was very well prepared and doing private lessons. There are only so many circuits of the deep end you can make, and land whale watching loses it's appeal after a while.

 

[The Chairman]

I was actually fairly bored during the pool sessions.

I don't think I've ever had a student complain of boredom.