What is typical in an open water course these days?

[boulderjohn]

No, but how many poolsessions are enough? That is a question. can you learn diving in 80 minutes open water and 80 minutes pool? Because that is what you see sometimes as the total time for a course. (and some theory of course).

In your previous post, you said people were spending 0 minutes in the pool. Now you say 80. Where did you get that number?

It is simply not possible to do the required pool skills in that length of time. As an instructor, I required about 6 times that amount of time for the pool sessions. When I was a beginning student, I was one of two students in the class, and we did two hours in the pool, which was made possible by the ridiculous number of required skills that were skipped. That is the only way it can be done in that amount of time--ignoring the required skills.

So you are presenting an absurd violation of standards as if it is the way things are normally done. Can you explain how that is different from lying?

 

[berndo]

To the OP, I found that when working with a typical OW class, I could to the pool work in about 8 hours. I did work for a shop that had only 7 hours total scheduled for those sessions, but to get it all done in that time period, we made sure we got a lot of the requirements done outside of the scheduled pool time.

That sounds rather weird. About 3 to 4 hours are enough to go thought everything and than some.
When I hear that pool the pool sessions need to be 7 or 8 hours I wonder if the students are so bad or the instructor is very ineffective. I've worked for severel shop on 3 continents (cold and warm water) and I have never seen anyone do an 8 hour pool session. The only expection being difficult students or rookie instructors.

For example, the student had to setup and breakdown equipment 5 times, and we could do some of those outside of the scheduled pool time.

I think stuff like that is a very poor use of time. Setting up the equipment is super simple. I've seen hobby instructors and new instructors try to dumb it down for students way too much...

You show how to do it once and then you watch the students do it throughout the class and help them if they need it.

 

[fred32176]

I got OW certified (SDI) this spring. The course was the typical 2 weekends and I got the course materials when I signed up. The first Saturday was classroom instruction where we went over the entire course. The first Sunday was at the YMCA pool, where we did the skills they teach you in the pool and did the qualifying float and swims. The second weekend Saturday were open water skills in a local spring (DeLeon Springs) over two dives. The second weekend Sunday were two open water dives at Devil's Den where we finished any remaining skills, worked on buoyancy and did a DSMB. I was lucky in that I signed up for course dates where I was the only student and got private lessons at the normal group rate.

I paid $399 for the course + $75 for equipment rental. The equipment was ScubaPro Hydros Pro BCD, scuba pro regulators and wetsuits. I also paid a discounted entry fee to Devil's Den. I have a yearly Florida State Park pass which covered my entry fee to DeLeon Springs.

There are 4 dive shops within an hour of my house I could have trained with. I picked my dive shop for training because I liked their philosophy - give students quality equipment, teach them on a back inflate BCD and we train on schedule even if you are the only one signed up for those dates (I was).

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I did PADI open water locally through my LDS.
I had to drive down to the next county to my LDS’s sister store because they had a pool. It was two weekends. The first weekend was class and pool and the second weekend was 4 ocean dives up on the coast.
The class and pool were 8 hour days maybe a bit more with lunch break. I can’t remember exactly how much actual time was spent in the pool but it seemed like about half of each day. So in those two days it’s entirely possible we spent close to 8 hours in the pool?
I got a full PADI class with no skipped skills.
Everybody in the class did well and there were no hang ups. It helped that I read the whole book twice through before hand and had the knowledge reviews done before the class started.
The shop was pretty good at prepping students as to what to expect and urged them to study before hand.

 

[TMHeimer]

That sounds rather weird. About 3 to 4 hours are enough to go thought everything and than some.
When I hear that pool the pool sessions need to be 7 or 8 hours I wonder if the students are so bad or the instructor is very ineffective. I've worked for severel shop on 3 continents (cold and warm water) and I have never seen anyone do an 8 hour pool session. The only expection being difficult students or rookie instructors.


I think stuff like that is a very poor use of time. Setting up the equipment is super simple. I've seen hobby instructors and new instructors try to dumb it down for students way too much...

You show how to do it once and then you watch the students do it throughout the class and help them if they need it.

I don't think setting up the equipment is super simple at all. Mechanical stuff like that baffles me (ask my wife...), yet other stuff I can pick up in a flash. Everyone is different.

 

[Germie]

In your previous post, you said people were spending 0 minutes in the pool. Now you say 80. Where did you get that number?

It is simply not possible to do the required pool skills in that length of time. As an instructor, I required about 6 times that amount of time for the pool sessions. When I was a beginning student, I was one of two students in the class, and we did two hours in the pool, which was made possible by the ridiculous number of required skills that were skipped. That is the only way it can be done in that amount of time--ignoring the required skills.

So you are presenting an absurd violation of standards as if it is the way things are normally done. Can you explain how that is different from lying?

That was a typo. Haha. I meant 80 minutes.

 

[berndo]

I don't think setting up the equipment is super simple at all.

It is super simple for the vast majority of people.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It is super simple to the vast majority of people.

It is simple, everybody needs to learn it and get good at it. This whole “let the DM do it for me, that’s what they’re there for” is ridiculous.
It’s not like they are being asked to strip all the second stages, gauges, and hoses off the 1st stage and re-assemble everything every single time.
It is not hard to drop the bc down over the tank, rotate it into place and lock it down, then put the reg assembly on the tank, hook up LP hoses, and pressurize it to check everything. It should take less than five minutes. Every diver needs to know this.

 

[Scubagermany]

instructor had us practice a repeatedly on land first before even get into the pool

What on earth did you practice on land??

I had my first lesson of my OWD in the sea and never felt unsafe.

I did a CMAS OWD and I still feel I had an excellent class!

 

[berndo]

It is not hard to drop the bc down over the tank, rotate it into place and lock it down, then put the reg assembly on the tank, hook up LP hoses, and pressurize it to check everything.

Yeah, it's really just that. New students do sometimes forget to hook up the inflator or put the reg on upside down... but then they either realise it right away or you tell them to look at the reg again.