What is the problem with doing a Scuba Review/Refresher?

[Gaijinsan]

It would be a very unusual driver who rents a car without having driven one for a couple of days, let alone 6 months to a year.

I have never been to Boulder, but I lived in London for 5 years without a car at all. It makes no real sense to have one in London and is much cheaper to rent a car when needed, I would bet that is true of places like Tokyo as well. Whilst your observation is maybe true for much of the US it is not quite as cut and dried elsewhere. Anyway I meant it to serve as an illustration. The rental company have no knowledge of your driving activity and are in the same position as the dive op.

What is your view on it? Would you lend your own car to a friend that hadn't driven for a year (maybe in prison for example - I hope none of your friends are - but it is another example)

Would you rent me a left hand drive auto when I normally drive a right hand shift?

Very interesting point chrisch. I do live in Tokyo and like you in London, I would not dream of driving every day here. This is a city where perhaps 80%+ of the time it is faster to go by train/subway than car/taxi if you know your way around. But as far as driving goes I do drive occasionally (2-3 weekends a year) in Japan if I need to go into the countryside and I rent a fair number of times a year during international travel but certainly no where near every day or even every month for that matter. In driving a car perhaps I don't feel like I get rusty but I used to drive every day for 15 years, anything forgotten is back by the time I get off the rental lot. I'm also equally as adept in left hand or right hand drive and manual transmission on either side (grew up in the US, lived in country driving on left for 5 years and holidayed in countries driving on the left more often than on the right). I certainly don't feel guilty for renting a car, left or right hand drive when I travel nor do I feel dangerous to myself or others. I have yet, in perhaps 150-200 rental cars, to damage one.

In the end, it's a great point of where extensive past experience can easily make up for recent occasional practice and mandatory refresher could be overkill after a short break.

 

[drbill]

Living on an island where I walk most of the time unless I need my golf cart to take my dive gear down, I visit the "big island" ("Lost" Angeles) about once a month during winter and perhaps never during summer. When I do go over, I find I need a readjustment on my concentration to drive with all those crazies. I still know how to drive my Toyota over there, but it does take a different mindset.

I have had dry spells lasting as long as several years before I donned my gear again. I hadn't lost my knowledge of how to dive (great training back in the 60s from my L. A. County instructor) but I did need to adjust my concentration level. Haven't had any significant dry spells the past 16-17 years so it is automatic now.

 

[Aguablanco1]

Rental company doesn't care. You and their vehicle are you nsured and most of the time renter is also buying overpriced insurance from the rental agency as well. It's neither here nor there to them, though they obviously make more money if you don't wreck the car.

How could a scuba op set up the same way?

Why would a dive op need to be set up the same way? The car rental company has no liability for your actions after renting the car. Why does a dive op think they have any liability? They didn't certify the diver, in most cases. They look to see if the diver is certified, rent the requested gear and go on with life. The only reason to be concerned is, possibly, guiding the diver beyond their limit of training or experience. That would increase liability significantly.

The real issue is dive ops not informing customers in advance of their arrival of the refresher requirements. Tell me about them when I make my reservation, not after I have traveled and spent tons of money to get there. Be up front and stop trying to hold me hostage when I get there.
RichH

 

[nimoh]

Not a lawyer, but I think dive ops take on liability when they lead dives and give patrons the impression that the DMs are responsible for their safety.


This would be similar (but not exactly the same as) to a rental car company providing a diver for you when you rent a car.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not a lawyer, but I think dive ops take on liability when they lead dives and give patrons the impression that the DMs are responsible for their safety.

There have been several cases I know of in which DMs and the companies have been sued successfully for the DM's actions. In each case that I know of, though, the DM's actions were pretty outrageous. In one of them not only were his actions terrible, the company that hired him knew he had not renewed his DM certification for years and thus was not certified to act as a DM and had no liability insurance for his profession.

In another case, the famous Tina Watson case in Australia, the company (Mike Ball) had a policy of requiring checkout dives for everyone, but they waived the requirement in this case because Tina's husband had Rescue Diver certification from NASDS. When Tina got into trouble, her husband proved to be woefully inept, and she died. Mike Ball was heavily fined because they did not follow their own policy (no other law broken) in this case.

 

[Rayallyn]

Rhone Man, I can relate to that. After leaving the service I got tanks filled from a friend who ran a dive shop I never bothered with certs. I dove with the guy who own the dive shop and a few others that I knew. Many of my dives at that time were solo but when I moved to New Hampshire I lost interest with all there was to do up there - skiing, hiking, rock climbing, and general mountaineering. When I sail down to the florida Keys I got interested again took some of my military records to the dive shop and had to take the OW course. The instructor a young guy kept telling me how stupid he felt trying to teach me. I had to remind him that a lot had changed with diving in eighteen years and that I had changed physically from the time I was younger. Anyway, I was glad that I did the course. I have now reached master diver and working on DM and Research diver. Even if labeled an expert I would never consider myself an expert, experienced yes but always learning.

 

[kenackr]

My take on it is that I would welcome the opportunity to take a dive refresher, but that it would probably be done at my own home location in advance of the dive trip. That way, I could do it privately with a one on one setting so I don't miss anything. I also think that my views may not be shared by others who do not see that refreshing dive skills & procedures, if there is a significant gap in time since last dive, is the most prudent approach. Lots of folks don't see diving as an exercise in survival that depends on their equipment, their skills, and how much they forget over time.

I think the thing you are missing is that most people don't like to be challenged unexpectedly that may cause them embarrassment and the appearance of "loss of competency" in front of others.

I certainly understand your side of it too. I would recommend that you find a way to communicate your policy to divers while they are still at home so they are not "caught" unawares. When that is not possible, perhaps you should make the first dive a "proof" (without calling it that) with the DM in the water.

 

[chriskoob]

I've been diving for 10+ years. I don't count dives and I certainly don't have proof of my last dive. On good years, I have two week long vacations of diving. On busy years, it is one vacation a year. --I have a huge issue with "check out dives" for open water and any dive under 100ft. For my wife and I, it is totally unnecessary and simply a way for shops to pad their bill. On the other hand, if the dives are highly technical or involve a penetration, a check out dive might be in order. It sometimes takes a dive or two to get weight perfect and ensure equipment still works as expected.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I've been diving for 10+ years. I don't count dives and I certainly don't have proof of my last dive. On good years, I have two week long vacations of diving. On busy years, it is one vacation a year. --I have a huge issue with "check out dives" for open water and any dive under 100ft. For my wife and I, it is totally unnecessary and simply a way for shops to pad their bill. On the other hand, if the dives are highly technical or involve a penetration, a check out dive might be in order. It sometimes takes a dive or two to get weight perfect and ensure equipment still works as expected.

Before replying please clarify your post, are you only diving once a year for a week or two??

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with doing a needed refresher at home before a trip. Am still puzzled as to why the question of whether a (tropical) dive op requires a refresher of any type (and it's cost) can't be asked and answered via e mail or even a costly phone call. I guess this may not happen if it is someone's first dive trip. Even so, the op should state the required refresher before all sign on the dotted line.