What is stopping you from switching to a rebreather?

[matt_unique]

Price and safety are primary concerns for me, but price is definately the biggest factor.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't like the idea of a computer managing my pp02's. When I trow on my doubles I know what I am breathing for the entire dive and this will not change until I switch to my deco bottles. I know many swear by rebreathers and I'm sure the equipment is as reliable as my dive computers, etc.

Cost is the primary factor. I have more than the cost of a rebreather invested in doubles so to switch to a rebreather would be hugely expensive.

--Matt

 

[caveseeker7]

Call me old fashioned, but I don't like the idea of a computer managing my pp02's.

The Jetsam Kiss rebreathers are manually controlled CCRs.
They still rely on three sensors to monitor the O2 content in the loop, but the diver controls the setpoint. Hence there is no electronic controler, batteries etc. to rely on.

Then again, no CCR diver should rely on their electronics, which is emphasized in any training I know of. Even with an electronic controller you'll spend the majority of the class flying the CCR manually (monitoring the sensors and injecting gas as needed). The majority of the CCR divers I know fly there rigs manually above a chosen setpoint most of the time to stay proficient.

The issue of the gas in the loop remains, though, it will still be different from the gas in your tanks. And your point is a valid one shared by many, a rebreather is just not the right equipment for you.

Cost is the primary factor. I have more than the cost of a rebreather invested in doubles so to switch to a rebreather would be hugely expensive.

I think that was the point FLTEK was trying to make. After selling some of his OC gear the cost of purchasing the rebreather was offset.

Obviously bailout tanks, gauges and regs are still needed, but they are on OC, too. If you'll look at some of the older posts (and threads on the subject) you'll see that for most rec diving profiles a single and small bailout tank will suffice, while for many trimix dives two 80s will do.

For most situations OC bailout (certainly at the tech diving level) is a last resort. Before that are monitored manual CC mode, monitored manual SC mode and manual SC mode.

If however you are uncomfortable or unwilling to monitor your pO2, deal with the additional pre- and post dive setup and maintainance, start from scratch in your diving profiles, then staying OC is a perfectly sound decision.

 

[Bobby]

The Jetsam Kiss rebreathers are manually controlled CCRs.
They still rely on three sensors to monitor the O2 content in the loop, but the diver controls the setpoint. Hence there is no electronic controler, batteries etc. to rely on.

Then again, no CCR diver should rely on their electronics, which is emphasized in any training I know of. Even with an electronic controller you'll spend the majority of the class flying the CCR manually (monitoring the sensors and injecting gas as needed). The majority of the CCR divers I know fly there rigs manually above a chosen setpoint most of the time to stay proficient.

The issue of the gas in the loop remains, though, it will still be different from the gas in your tanks. And your point is a valid one shared by many, a rebreather is just not the right equipment for you.


I think that was the point FLTEK was trying to make. After selling some of his OC gear the cost of purchasing the rebreather was offset.

Obviously bailout tanks, gauges and regs are still needed, but they are on OC, too. If you'll look at some of the older posts (and threads on the subject) you'll see that for most rec diving profiles a single and small bailout tank will suffice, while for many trimix dives two 80s will do.

For most situations OC bailout (certainly at the tech diving level) is a last resort. Before that are monitored manual CC mode, monitored manual SC mode and manual SC mode.

If however you are uncomfortable or unwilling to monitor your pO2, deal with the additional pre- and post dive setup and maintainance, start from scratch in your diving profiles, then staying OC is a perfectly sound decision.

Good post you hit the nail on the head

 

[BigJetDriver]

BigJet,

I am sure you know the story about the horse, the water and drinking.

Mike...

HOOAH.....Good one, Mike!!! :rofl:

Cheers!

 

[BigJetDriver]

Call me old fashioned, but I don't like the idea of a computer managing my pp02's. When I throw on my doubles I know what I am breathing for the entire dive and this will not change until I switch to my deco bottles. I know many swear by rebreathers and I'm sure the equipment is as reliable as my dive computers, etc.

Cost is the primary factor. I have more than the cost of a rebreather invested in doubles so to switch to a rebreather would be hugely expensive.

--Matt

Matt,

Okay, you are OLD-FASHIONED.

The idea with an ECCR is like that of the computer systems on modern aircraft. They are built to extend one's capabilities.

NOTHING relieves the pilot of his or her responsibility to (1) monitor the process constantly and (2) make adjustments as necessary, up to and including doing it the old fasioned way; i.e. "by hand". :11:

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

This is only my opinion and some will disagree but I feel that if you are a recreational diver moving towards rebreathers then SCR to CCR is an important step. When you do dives (and are trained for) that require decompression with stages and gas switches then going straight to CCR may be considered. The reason for this is task loading. When moving into CCR's the task loading for monitoring all three to four of your O2 sensors as well as gas preassure's and boyancy issues can over whelm a recreational diver very quickly. It is not the 90% of the time that things go correct that is the problem. It is the 10% that a small issue gets out of hand due to task loading. I am not saying that one type of diver is better than the other what I am only trying to point out is that divers that do deco & stage have the type of experience that lends to what you need with a CCR. You can buy used dolphins in good condition for $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 and if you care for them sell them for about what you bought them for. A dolphin or other SCR will kill you just as quick if you do not fallow all of your procedures but when you get under water there is less task loading than on a CCR. Just my 2cents and take it for what you paid for it.

Bobby i couldn't agree with you more.

Even though i planned and have done decopresion diving before on OC, i would not even consider it on any rebreather until i fully was trained for it on the rebreather i was going to use for that purpose.

For me, even though alot of people suggest getting into CCR at the begging, i wanted to start in SCR, and when i have the knowladge and money, as right now im VERY new, only researching rebreather here for the past 2 month's, will i goto CCR.

I choose to go SCR and only dive it withen rec limit's, and just simply use the rebreather to replace and of my rec diving for next year, maybe alittle more or less, but simply untill i research and know exactley what i want when i comes to CCR diving, i'll then make that step.

Also at this time, i cannot see diving a CCR on 60' reef's, and using a $8,000.00 CCR rebreather for the purpose of only diving withen rec limit's. So cost was a big factour in choosing SCR for now, and diving them withen rec limit's.

When i do decide to dive beyond rec limit's, i will then choose the best CCR rebreather for the type of diving i will be more likley be doing. I like the Meg, Prizm, and Insperation alot, as im reading and researching more bewteen there differnce's.

But for now, i simply could not see spending $8k right off the start,. to simply replace my rec OC diving with a CCR rebreather for that type of diving. Cost was a major factour why i decided to choose SCR.

I can very easy see why alot don;t choose to dive them, simple reason, Cost, if i were only diving 30-40 times a year,i wouldn;t consider a rebreather. there not for eveyone in the sport, but they are becoming more popular and alot safer then ever, i think there will be a trend in a few year's like there is now, everyone wanting to be a tech diver, switching over to rebreather's as cost come down, and as seeing them alot more common on the recreational diver's alot more.

 

[BigJetDriver]

(1) Then again, no CCR diver should rely on their electronics, which is emphasized in any training I know of. Even with an electronic controller you'll spend the majority of the class flying the CCR manually (monitoring the sensors and injecting gas as needed). The majority of the CCR divers I know fly there rigs manually above a chosen setpoint most of the time to stay proficient.

(2) I think that was the point FLTEK was trying to make. After selling some of his OC gear the cost of purchasing the rebreather was offset.

(3) For most situations OC bailout (certainly at the tech diving level) is a last resort. Before that are monitored manual CC mode, monitored manual SC mode and manual SC mode.

(4) If however you are uncomfortable or unwilling to monitor your PPO2, deal with the additional pre- and post dive setup and maintainance, and start from scratch in your diving profiles, then staying OC is a perfectly sound decision.

Stefan, as always, makes some very good points! If I may, I will take the liberty of commenting on some of them.

(1) I think this part should read: "no CCR diver should rely on his or her electronics TOTALLY." Just as pilots monitor our instruments and judge whether or not our machine is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing, divers must monitor their machines. Also, we practice hand-flying our rigs (in both cases) to stay proficient.

(2) You can sell quite a bit of that OC gear, not all, and make up some of the cost of the machine.

(3) Here, I must point out that IANTD's philosophy is this: If you believe that something is wrong with your machine for any reason, you bail out to OC, take a couple of "sanity breaths", think about the problem, then ACT. Because the CCR is so much more effient in almost every aspect, REMAINING off the loop is the least preferred solution.

(4) Stefan is absolutely spot on with this observation.

Cheers!

Rob Davie
IANTD I.T.
Inspiration Instructor
Shadow Pack III I.T.T.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Hey, FTD, we are just giving you a little gentle razzing!

 

[caveseeker7]

(1) I think this part should read: "no CCR diver should rely on his or her electronics TOTALLY."

Oh yeah, I forgot, you only have battery powered monitors.
Of course, I ment to say
"no CCR diver should rely on their electronics unless that's all he's got :1poke:

:monkeydan
Disclaimer: I use up all my restraint and disciplin when diving,
so I just can't resist.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

I am waiting for a completely closed circuit model that has the safety and reliability factors as the primary consideration. Price is an issue but I have already thrown so much into dive gear that another $7,000 or so hardly makes the shock meter react anymore. Did I just say that? :11: Besides, think of alll the helium money I will save in the long run.

The semi closed units have gotten pretty good but I am looking for completely closed. Once that gets to where it can be reliable for deep technical dives, I will be ready to make the move.