What I am missing - The use of rebreathers.

[dreamdive]

How many lives have been saved because of RB? - This point does not get stressed enough IMO. It is just easier to blame than to praise.

RBs are just less forgiving than other tools - That gets stated frequently, but how so? It has been bothering me. First and second stages fail and an incorrect gas switch can kill you, too (rather than diving a constant PO2). If you misassemble your equipment, if you mistreat your equipment, if you don't service your equipment, if you dive your equipment with insufficient training.....if does not matter if it is an OC or CCR. Is there more involved diving CCR than OC: Yes, sure is! But some principles remain the same between the two even though they are like apples and oranges.

Alternatively:

I find that rebreathers give me more options that I don't have OC. : TIME, GAS, - nerves
I can go from Eccr to manual (for some failures); Go CCR to SCR (in some failures). If I run out of Dil - I can plug in off-board. If I loose my O2, I can plug in offboard. I have to get off the loop with full electronic failure (all my redundant devices have failed which is unlikely) or I flood (scrubber is compromised) then I have bail-out gas.

Other than buddies and thirds, what is your default or back-up plan OC? One other thing that kills divers is panic or perceptual narrowing due to stress. On CCR we have time and gas to keep it together in a lot more situations than what you would have OC. Yes, you have to make sure you are neither hypoxic or hyperoxic - so you have to pay attention, even if it is subconciously. But, you don't have to pay attention OC?

If I loose my gas OC, I hope that I was diving thirds and have buddies. If I get lost, disoriented, stuck in a cave, I hope I have enough gas because what I don't have is lots of time and gas. I don't have to undergo multiple gas switches where I might get the wrong bottle.......

Without numbers to support this claim, I believe that although we have an exponential increase in CCR divers, we are not seeing an exponential increase in CCR deaths. As doppler stated, events like RF3, improved training by agencies, improvements on newer CCR's, information sharing in the CCR community, all have made CCR diving "safer". Just like skydiving, fatalities are usually operator error than equipment failure. And, operator error has been and continues to be improved upon by training and feedback from the equipment/equipment design. And let's not forget: some deaths happened on a rebreather, but could just have easily been happening OC.

It's not for everyone and it's best to admit to ones limitations rather than giving into the macho/ego thing. But please, don't use "CCR" deaths as your argument why you are not diving CCR. Just admit that it is not for you - period.

 

[archer1960]

Anecdotal and completely unsupported by any body of evidence that I've ever seen.

-Adrian

The stat may well be true, but you also need to look at the kind of dive it was being used in at the time. As somebody else pointed out, RBs will get you into situations you would never attempt on OC. Kind of like 4-wheel drive: it doesn't keep you from getting stuck, it just gets you stuck in worse places where nobody can come help you.

 

[Mr.X]

The stat may well be true, but you also need to look at the kind of dive it was being used in at the time. As somebody else pointed out, RBs will get you into situations you would never attempt on OC. Kind of like 4-wheel drive: it doesn't keep you from getting stuck, it just gets you stuck in worse places where nobody can come help you.

The interesting part of the 4 x 4 analogy is that it assumes that a user either does, or does not have adequate training, or judgment. Getting in trouble can be attributed to the two factors I mentioned, or you just are sh_t out of luck. And in the context of diving in an open body of water - it can happen anytime.

As a scuba educator - I find that instilling/developing/advising are necessary parts of diving. And this holds especially true for epic dives using CCR, or OC. With proper planning (inclusive of best training available/prior prep/infrastructure/vetting/degrees of conservatism) epic diving can be less risky. And if anything - the modern rebreather gives a epic diver more options than OC when some of the sh_t hits the fan bits occur. However, it's a limited tool as you never have a infinite source of breathing gas ; infinite source of breathing gas being the magic genie.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm not a re-breather diver, but have a healthy respect for those that do. Often I do diver with RB pilots within recreational limits. I see no disadvantages for A RB diver carrying out shallow dives. Now of course I've thought about converting, it's not the cost nor the training which puts me off, but rather knowing my own limitations.

As a for instance, I enjoy playing with my model R/C car, but for every hour I'm using it, I spend just as long modifying it and tinkering with it which I find very therapeutic. When it comes to my dive equipment simply put I just want to wash it and hang it after use. The most effort I put into it is checking my gas mixes before I dive. (This is not strictly true but used as an example)

While I know I have the ability to learn about RB's - given I used to rebuild jet engines and their systems for a living. But I don't think I personally am wired for RB maintenance.

Of course all the Post use cleaning and checks and the pre-use assembly and testing is done to ensure the unit works and as far as possible won't malfunction, however (my feeling is) the RB users also enjoy this par of ownership, they don't look at it as a chore that must be done, rather than something they get satisfaction when carrying out these tasks - its not just a means to an end.

And I don't mean the above to be disparaging in anyway again I have a respect for the RB users and the dedication they must put into the maintenance of their equipment.

Of course there is a separate issue in that by personal choice I rarely go below 40m and rarely feel that I'd like to stay underwater for more than an hour. I perhaps do mixed gas deco diving below 40m twice or 3 times a year (for which I'm trained) but I don't' feel the urge to do it more

But I totally get them and I get the flexibility and freedom they give to the users - perhaps one day I will have a try dive on one and maybe my perceptions about myself will change. But for the moment I'll stay within my perceived personal limitations accepting that they aren't for me, while respecting, understanding and of course diving with those who used them.

 

[lv2dive]

Oh, the after-dive breakdown/cleaning *is* a chore. Worth it, but still a chore!

 

[kensuf]

Oh, the after-dive breakdown/cleaning *is* a chore. Worth it, but still a chore!

I must be doing the post-dive maintenance wrong. My instructor showed me some procedures that take about 15 minutes total. Should I put you in touch with him?

Oh wait, you dive with James, I understand...

 

[Superlyte27]

Took me less than 10 minutes to break down my rebreather last night. And I can dive it for a week straight with less than 5 minutes setup and breakdown.

 

[Doppler]

Worth noting perhaps is that some CCRs really are "in development" and their shortcomings must be fully understood and accounted for when using them.



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