What I am missing - The use of rebreathers.

[lee stroke]

I would say that a rebreather is not the way to go if most of your diving is above 200 feet. Once you cross the 200 foot level your wallet will let you know that a rebreather would be economical. A risk assessment of the dive you want to do will dictate the use of a rebreather. If you can do it OC then that is probably the way to go. A rebreather is a very expensive way to commit suicide but at least you go quietly.

 

[hroark2112]

I always am amused at the negativity towards rebreathers, especially those who have zero experience with them.

If you're the type of diver who wants to strap on your gear, jump in the water and dive until you're almost out of air, paying no mind to your gear except when you put it on and take it off, a rebreather is not for you. You are the kind of diver who will likely meet his demise on one. However, if you're the kind of diver who can actually pay attention to what is going on with the gear keeping you alive underwater, if you have a cool head and are not prone to panic, and can follow simple checklists every time you put your gear together and before you jump in the water, a rebreather is possibly for you.

Personally I feel safer and more in control on a rebreather than I do diving OC. For me, the pros outweigh the cons. I don't believe for one second that diving a rebreather properly is paramount to suicide. Improperly diving a rebreather is a different story. It is not something for a vacation diver, for the casual diver who does 10 dives a year.

If you're a careful rebreather diver, you will be rewarded with long, quiet dives, closer interaction with marine life, warm moist breathing air, and more bottom time before hitting mandatory decompression stops.

 

[Drin]

I used to believe rebreathers were magic boxes waiting to kill me if I turned my back on them.

Now I *know* they are, and I wouldn't dive any other way.

-Adrian

 

[dreamdive]

My stepdad of 75 years wanted to try diving. Peter took him OC while I followed along but stayed with my rebreather. I DON'T dive OC anymore, period - even for the most shallow of dives.

I also am a firm believer that unless you put some time on a rebreather, your opinion regarding CCR diving is shallow at best and thus does not amount to much. I know that this statement will offend some. However, it offends me when non CCR divers spew all their "perceived" negativity about something they don't know much or anything about.

 

[kwinter]

Virtually all of my diving outside of the aquarium where I volunteer is done on a rebreather. But I disagree with Claudia a bit. There are definitely dives where open circuit is more appropriate or easier. Working dives, and I mean hard work, are probably a lot safer on OC. Most rebreathers can't handle the WOB and scrubbing efficiency necessary for hard working dives. And especially if the dive is very shallow (20 feet or less), where buoyancy control is much easier on OC than on CCR. So there are reasons to prefer OC diving. It's just that 99% of my dives don't fit that category.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[kensuf]

I would say that a rebreather is not the way to go if most of your diving is above 200 feet. Once you cross the 200 foot level your wallet will let you know that a rebreather would be economical. A risk assessment of the dive you want to do will dictate the use of a rebreather. If you can do it OC then that is probably the way to go. A rebreather is a very expensive way to commit suicide but at least you go quietly.

I just started diving a rebreather in July and only have about 25 hours on the loop so far, so take this with the understanding that it is coming from my lack of rebreather diving background. But the primary advantage, in my opinion, is that the rebreather "stops time" by removing the gas pressure considerations, and that there are definitely appropriate uses in "shallow" water.

The majority of my diving is in caves, and my idea of a fun Saturday spent underwater is traveling 1-2 miles (one-way) underground. My last "big" OC dive was a 9000' penetration in Manatee back in June, I was on a triple stage, my two dive buddies were on CCR's. When we were at our max penetration I was busy thinking about my pressure gauge and ready to head out, they on the other hand were more interested in getting a good look around at our location.

The rebreather simplifies this type of diving so much by giving extra time at max penetration (as long as there is adequate bailout) that it's not even funny.

 

[Rhone Man]

I always am amused at the negativity towards rebreathers, especially those who have zero experience with them.

...

If you're a careful rebreather diver, you will be rewarded with long, quiet dives, closer interaction with marine life, warm moist breathing air, and more bottom time before hitting mandatory decompression stops.

I am one of the negativity guys who has never used one (although I have done plenty of dives with people on rebreathers).

For me it is pretty simple. Most of the people who die whilst diving are rookies or idiots (or both). But when an experienced and skilled diver dies, then 95% of the time they are on rebreathers (the other 5% are either trying to set world depth records or are in caves - something else I won't do). I read an article once (I may try and find it to post a link) that said in risk adjusted terms you are 800 times more likely to die on a rebreather than on open circuit.

Yes, yes, I know - I am absolutely certain that there are thousands are divers using rebreathers happily and safely. But for me, the risks are proven on a statistical basis and I'll pay what I have to pay for extra gas, and live with the noise of my bubbles.


---------- Post added September 2nd, 2015 at 08:49 AM ----------

Can't find the original article, but some pretty chunky stats to much the same effect in here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...25.xls&usg=AFQjCNEQo_WPRQpe8giogPG4YMJM_jc7ag

Although it does concede that most rebreather deaths come back to operator error, for me that is just restating the point: these machines are such that even enormously experienced divers suffer from fatal operator errors.

YMMV.

 

[AJ]

Yes, yes, I know - I am absolutely certain that there are thousands are divers using rebreathers happily and safely. But for me, the risks are proven on a statistical basis and I'll pay what I have to pay for extra gas, and live with the noise of my bubbles.

You can't argue with statistics, but you sure can interpret them anyway you want. Specifically the overall analysis tells me a lot. It's not thre rebreather that kills, accidents happen because of a lot of other reasons. Furthermore, analysing the statistics it became clear to me that a lot of these dives are (far) beyond normal rec dives, so risks are a lot higher.

This sheet does not prove to me rebreathers are dangerous, but the dives that are made with rebreathers are. There may lie the true risk with rebreathers. They facilitate more complex dives with higher risk profile more easy than OC.

 

[Superlyte27]

It would be hard for me to guess how many hours I have on a rebreather at this point. I can tell you that from November 8th to January 1st I had logged the 100 hours necessary to become an instructor for a particular unit I had just purchased. I was diving a rEvo for a few years before that, and today dive Kiss, rEvo and Optima. I'm guessing I'm somewhere near 500-600 hours total spread out over probably 10 rebreathers I've owned.

This remains true of all 10 rebreathers. Rebreathers are only as dangerous as you are incompetent.

I like absolutes...
It's one of the reasons I enjoy cave diving so much. I believe there are five rules of cave diving. If you obey all 5 rules of cave diving, you are virtually guaranteed to live every single time. Unless you are Parker Turner, I guess. A cave collapse kept him from reaching the surface.

The same can be said of diving a rebreather. The differences are, that it's not just 5 rules, but a page long list of things that must be adhered to. Did you build the unit properly? Are the cells working properly? Are you monitoring your PPO2 the entire dive. Are you diligent in listening for a leak (you can hear even the smallest leak on CCR, provided you don't have an OC buddy with you). Are you listening for the solenoid to fire? Are you watching for a shortness of breath or increased breath rate, and if so are man enough to make the switch to OC instead of just discounting it as extra workload? This and 20 other things that are second nature at this point for me, happen every dive.

This isn't a toaster oven. You don't get to "set it and forget it." But, if you are the type of person who likes checklists. Doesn't mind being thorough. You've overcome complacency. And you're not cheap. The rebreather is no more dangerous than the 2nd stage regulator you use and the Oxygen Analyzer you checked your tanks with today.

You know what's interesting...
If Parker Turner had been diving a rebreather at Indian when the cave collapsed, blocking his exit, he'd still be alive today.

 

[abscuba]

With rebreathers you are trading one set of risks and problems for another. I do a great deal of wreck penetration and prior to rebreathers on OC dives I was constantly worried about gas supply, my bottles where not only my main supply of gas but my back up for emergencies. Meaning if something went wrong I would have minuets to fix it. On my RB I look at my time based on gas and it becomes hours instead of mins. Now having said that the RB is more complicated and has more things that can fail, but if something goes wrong I bail out and I am back where I started OC. It is hard to compare RB and OC diving because the dives being conducted on RBs are often more complicated and have more risk regardless of tools used. A RB gives you more options to deal with a problem however it is less forgiving to someone who is careless or even just has a momentary lapse of judgement.