What happens to a submarine sunk by depth charges?

[agilis]

An astonishing 75% of all WW2 German submariners never returned from their missions, the highest casualty rate of any service I know of. I believe the phenomenon of 'breaking its back' with an explosion directly under the target vessel from a giant air bubble was first noticed when acoustic torpedoes were used which fixed on propeller noise rather than direct contact. I think intentional use of this method was developed after WW2.

My significant other's father served on a US sub when he was 18, in 1945. Being an African American from North Carolina his official designation was mess steward, although he was actually used in other capacities. That's how it was in the US military in 1945. I've seen his diary, which details how he helped sail a surrendered high tech German sub from Germany to New London just after the war. The captain gave him the ship's rifle as a trophy.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Thank y'all for the information. I found some interesting sites so I'll share them in case you're bored and don't sleep anymore like me!

Military history, including action reports of submarine battles. (Including everything else from Guyana to the Cuban Missle Crisis)
Online Reading Room

Latitude and longitude finder
http://www.satsig.net/maps/lat-long-finder.htm

National Submarine Memorial
USS Golet (SS-361)

Vulcan/Paul Allen.com
Continuing Paul Allen’s legacy | PaulAllen.com

RV PETREL
R/V Petrel Timeline

Crush depth may well be a factor but with the recent discoveries by the Paul Allen expeditions, it may be possible to at least locate the sub. Once my case is finished and appeal times have run, and I can disclose some details, I will reach out to the Allen group to see if The Golet could be put on the list of ships to search for.

I have read several action reports, damage reports, and survivor stories from the submarine service. The story of The Growler is particularly demonstrative of The Greatest Generation. Commander Gilmore was awarded the CMH after being seriously wounded and realizing that there was not enough time for him to get below deck during an air attack on his submarine, Once all other sailors were below deck, he gave the order to "Take Her down", knowing he was going to die. He gave his life so that his men and his ship would stand a better chance of getting below the surface and avoiding the second pass from the strafing runs. One article stated that the submarine service was the most dangerous duty in WWII with over a 20% casualty rate. The conditions and dangers these men faced are simply amazing.

As I read these stories and realize that none are particularly unique in that so many gave up so much, I am humbled by their sacrifice. Thank you to all that have served.

If you have any other information, links, or stories, please share.

Thanks again

 

[Bob DBF]

The story I heard was this phenomenon was discovered by Nazi U-boat commanders armed with new magnetic proximity sensors on unguided torpedos. Maybe some ex-Torpedomen on the board can explain it better?

Underwater Weapons

It has pictures so I could understand the text.


As for the WWII magnetic proximity sensors, they were discontinued by anyone who had them during the war because they were extremely sensitive and any magnetic anomaly would set them off, not just proximity to a ships hull, endangering the submarines using them. The torpedo problems in US submarines during WWII is story worth reading.



Bob

 

[Jared0425]

Very few WW2 era torpedoes detonated under a vessel breaking it's back. That was developed in the late 50s or early 60s if I recall correctly.

As mentioned above, with exceptions to crush depth vs depth charge. The submarine will likely be more or less intact. Scorpion and Thresher are about the worst possible state a submarine can be in and they were found by MAD equipment from an aircraft verified by bathyscapes.

The ocean is a very large place. And sometimes the bottom can be quite far away too!. But if there is one thing I learned about shipwreck hunting, it's that persistence pays off! I can tell you that I lost hope finding 2 wrecks and within a week of doing so our group located them (at the very last lane on the very last day).

So if you are serious and you have the will. It can happen. And who knows, you may find someone else's lost relative on another ship.

 

[tursiops]

One of the Alvin class submersibles (can't remember which one) was sent town to document the debris field.

Since it is a class of one, presumably the Alvin itself did the photography.

 

[tursiops]

Scorpion and Thresher are about the worst possible state a submarine can be in and they were found by MAD equipment from an aircraft verified by bathyscapes.

Yes, magnetometers found the Thresher, but they were towed underwater by a search ship, not deployed by an airplane. The water was about 3000m deep and the wreckage was strewn all over. Photographs by the towing sled were the primary identification. The search area was narrowly defined by SOSUS (acoustic surveillance) records. The Scorpion was found the same way, photographically, with a small search area defined acoustically, but magnetometers were not used.

 

[Celt]

The pressure hull will be intact and the outer hull will be damaged and rotting, if she is in water shallow enough to be bottom fished the chances are she is already found but not identified, get all fisherman’s fasteners and fouling reports for the area and start eliminating known reports, try matching the reported debris area and gear damage to the size of the target your searching for but sooner or later you’re going to have to do a hard search on known targets you haven’t eliminated.

 

[Akimbo]

Since it is a class of one, presumably the Alvin itself did the photography.

The Alvin class consisted of three deep submersibles (see links): Alvin (DSV-2)*, Turtle (DSV-3), and Sea Cliff (DSV-4). The Bathyscaphe Trieste II was DSV-1. I suspect that the Alvin was being upgraded to 20,000' with a new Titanium spherical hull at the time. The original steel sphere was later installed on the Turtle, which was retired in 1998.

* DSV is a acronym for Deep Submersible Vehicle

Whichever boat it was, there is no doubt that still photographs were taken in addition to video. I don't know for certain but the submersible on this project was "probably" fitted with a Hydro Products RCV, which was a remote controlled vehicle (now considered a ROV or Remote Operated Vehicle). The RCV was developed for the Navy and was small enough to be deployed through a submarine's torpedo tube. It had a thin umbilical cable and a 600-line black and white TV camera (considered high resolution for the day). I got to fly them a few times.

The reason I suspect that the DSV was temporarily fitted with an RCV is it wouldn't be safe for a DSV to penetrated most of the wreckage. An RCV would have been expendable.

 

[tursiops]

The Alvin class consisted three deep submersibles (see links): Alvin (DSV-2)*, Turtle (DSV-3), and Sea Cliff (DSV-4). The Bathyscaphe Trieste II was DSV-1. I suspect that the Alvin was being upgraded to 20,000' with a new Titanium spherical hull at the time. The original steel sphere was later installed on the Turtle, which was retired in 1998.

Thanks. I should have consulted Wikipedia rather than relying on my memory of my years at Woods Hole.

 

[cerich]

This is hardly underwater treasure but maybe I can find some information about a US submarine lost in WWII off of the Northeast coast of Japan. I have a case that has taken a more personal impact than most. The case details are not important for this post, but it involves a WWII veteran whose sub was sunk and never heard from again. He was on the submarine USS Golet, SS-361. The only proof they have of the sinking was that it was never heard from again and Japanese war records indicated an action report that listed an oil slick 5200 meters long with cork debris and a raft in an area that the sub could have been in. The most detailed report shows that there were two Japanese ships and aircraft involved in the battle.

On Eternal Patrol - Loss of USS Golet (SS-361)

To my knowledge the sub has never been located. When a sub was sunk by depth charges, would there have been an explosion rendering any recovery impossible (blown to pieces) or would there have been a hull breach that sent the sub to the bottom relatively intact? 82 Americans went to the bottom with her. One of those men was was a husband whose son was born two weeks later. My involvement is the result of a ripple from that event 80 years later.

If we can locate the Titanic and German u boats, is finding the Golet even possible?

Any information would be greatly appreciated, this is so far out of any realm of knowledge I possess, and google has turned up lots of the same information over the last few days. The family has become friends and I would like to share any information I can find.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Jay

depending on how close the charges came and depth of water really. It could fracture hull and fill with water, it could fracture ballast tanks and sink past crush depth and implode.

As a former submariner all of the outcomes suck