What does marketing do anyway?

[RJP]

I agree... My point is there is no reason to run to the bottom on price.

Exactly. The industry's mindset has too long been "how little can we charge and still run a business." Marketing is about determining "how can we run a business that is able to charge as MUCH as possible."

 

[Octopusprime]

So what are everyone's thoughts on demographics of new divers? I have been doing a lot of research on disposable income spending. I demographics I have been reading is more parents are learning their children's activities where historically parents would travle, learn to dive and get kids hooked. Today the 20 something's have disposable income and traveling and parents are taking up diving, and other activities to spend time with their adult kids.

Gettinging certified to scuba dive is about the same as getting started in golf between clubs and lessons, or skydiving, way less than buying and maintaining a boat. I see golf etc as the competition. How to portray message "scuba costs about the same as getting started in golf".

Once your certified and and have basic gear ongoing costs (entries or charters) are low and equivlilant to greens fees. Golfers could continue additional lesson like a diver get additional certs or specialties.

 

[Octopusprime]

Is anyone seeing a change in the average age of their new OW students?

 

[Hawkwood]

Last class I did had three kids from 12 to 13 (without their parents). A brother and sister in their early 20's. Two business partners in their mid 40's.

Nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Octopusprime]

We have had some luck filling classes with the BSA program 12-18... Last one we had 30+ do discover scuba and 10 scouts sign up for OW and 5 parents.

I have aver also started promoting to college sports teams to do discover scuba as team building experiance. I have one team interested... If we can use university pool for free I am going to do discover for free as a marketing tool. If we get 3 players and their other half we can fill a class.

If we can do a couple more of these we can easy have 40 students just with a couple groups.

 

[RJP]

I see golf etc as the competition.

Why? Have you ever actually had a prospective diver tell you they were "shopping for a new hobby and are trying to decide whether they should take up golf or scuba diving"? Or are you trying to convince people who have decided to take up golf to take up diving instead? Perhaps you're trying to get golfers to give up golf and replace it with scuba?

How to portray message "scuba costs about the same as getting started in golf".

Who would you try to convey this to... and toward what end?

Golfers? If they've already laid out money for golf gear/lessons and greens fees going forward, and ostensibly have some level of "commitment" to golf... will they have time, money, inclination to dive? How high is the risk that your "costs about the same" story actually conveys that scuba is expensive? Pretty good, I suspect... since both actually ARE expensive? (Additionally, for the highly affluent golfer... the cost of scuba training/gear is probably not an issue anyway.)

Non-Golfers? There would seem to be little. if any, value in comparing the cost of scuba to the cost of an activity that is either completely irrelevant... or has been specifically rejected.

Potential-Golfers? I will posit that the number of people whose thought process is "I will take up scuba or golf... whichever is cheaper" or "I'd love to take up scuba diving, but I'm going to take up golf instead because it's cheaper than diving" is pretty close to zero.

I think the risk of communicating "scuba is expensive" is pretty high with this argument. Particularly since golf is already seen as being an elite/luxury/affluent pursuit.

More often than not, a cost objection (to anything, not scuba specifically) raised by a potential customer is actually an indication that they simply don't see the value of buying the product/service in general (ie at ANY price)... or the value is seen as being lower than that of a competing product/service that is ALSO being considered. Because of this, a "cost rationalization" argument rarely works because it does not address whatever their underlying objection actually is. The more potent response is to...

1. Uncover the actual objection ("Scuba is expensive for something I won't be able to do that often." or "...for something I don't know if I'll like." or "...for something that seems dangerous."
2. Overcome the actual objection ("There are more opportunities to dive than just on vacation... cert is good forever so value is over a lifetime." or "We can do a discover Scuba program first so you can see how much fun it is..." etc.
3. Provide additional information to increase the perceived VALUE of the product/service. ("Meet new people, go to new places, see new things" etc)

The only time a price comparison message really resonates is when the customer is in active buying mode, have narrowed their consideration set, and are trying to decide between products that they perceive to be of relatively equal quality and value... and are specifically looking to price as a means of discriminating between the two. For example, if someone believes that a 3-Series BMW and an A4 Class Audi are fairly comparable vehicles... they might be swayed to the Audi by a significant price differential. Similarly, if someone really wants a BMW but erroneously believes that the Audi is cheaper... pointing out price parity could sway them to the BMW.

However - absent specific information that the Audi is also in the active consideration set - it makes no sense for a BMW sales person to use "costs no more than an Audi" as part of the selling message.

 

[Octopusprime]

Who would you try to convey this to... and toward what end?

Golfers? If they've already laid out money for golf gear/lessons and greens fees going forward, and ostensibly have some level of "commitment" to golf... will they have time, money, inclination to dive? How high is the risk that your "costs about the same" story actually conveys that scuba is expensive? Pretty good, I suspect... since both actually ARE expensive? (Additionally, for the highly affluent golfer... the cost of scuba training/gear is probably not an issue anyway.)

Non-Golfers? There would seem to be little. if any, value in comparing the cost of scuba to the cost of an activity that is either completely irrelevant... or has been specifically rejected.

I think the risk of communicating "scuba is expensive" is pretty high with this argument. Particularly since golf is already seen as being an elite/luxury/affluent pursuit.

More often than not, a cost objection (to anything, not scuba specifically) raised by a potential customer is actually an indication that they simply don't see the value of buying the product/service in general (ie at ANY price)... or the value is seen as being lower than that of a competing product/service that is ALSO being considered. In the case of scuba-vs-golf (or scuba vs pretty much anything else) I will posit that the number of people whose thought process is "I will take up scuba or golf... whichever is cheaper" is pretty close to zero. Because of this, a "cost rationalization" argument rarely works because it does not address whatever their underlying objection actually is. The more potent response is to...

1. Uncover the actual objection ("Scuba is expensive for something I won't be able to do that often." or "...for something I don't know if I'll like." or "...for something that seems dangerous."
2. Overcome the actual objection ("There are more opportunities to dive than just on vacation... cert is good forever so value is over a lifetime." or "We can do a discover Scuba program first so you can see how much fun it is..." etc.
3. Provide additional information to increase the perceived VALUE of the product/service. ("Meet new people, go to new places, see new things" etc)

Great questions... First I would like to say that is is about being to Handel objections everything has objections but it is a question if you can answer the questions to the satisfaction of the consumer. This is an art form and takes practice. To address the dangerous objection first... To many people say it is dangerous. Yes it can be but if you follow the rules and dive within your skill level diving is very safe. There are more fatalities in Chicago alone from guns in a year than the entire world in diving. You take risks every time you walk out the door, get in a car or plane.

As to the the fact that it is a lot of money for something I can not do very often. There are a lot of ways to Handel this objection... I used to golf a lot and then I had kids and I golf 4 times a year but still have $2000 in golf gear. If you have local diving opportunities it does not have to be something you do not do often there are a lot of Midwest diving opportunities from Lake Michigan diving to many inland lakes and quarries. If the potential diver is a Travler you can say ..." Did you know that 75% of the earth is underwater! with out going underwater you can only see 25% of what there is to see there"

You had good example for the I do not know if I will like it with the discover scuba.

The hard question is the who you would try to convey this to... In general I would say adventure speakers or outdoor people. Partnering up with other outdoor events maybe there is a local sporting goods store that does kayak lessons a camping or hiking group you can cross promote to.

 

[RJP]

Great questions... First I would like to say that is is about being to Handel objections everything has objections but it is a question if you can answer the questions to the satisfaction of the consumer. This is an art form and takes practice. To address the dangerous objection first... To many people say it is dangerous. Yes it can be but if you follow the rules and dive within your skill level diving is very safe. There are more fatalities in Chicago alone from guns in a year than the entire world in diving. You take risks every time you walk out the door, get in a car or plane.

As to the the fact that it is a lot of money for something I can not do very often. There are a lot of ways to Handel this objection... I used to golf a lot and then I had kids and I golf 4 times a year but still have $2000 in golf gear. If you have local diving opportunities it does not have to be something you do not do often there are a lot of Midwest diving opportunities from Lake Michigan diving to many inland lakes and quarries. If the potential diver is a Travler you can say ..." Did you know that 75% of the earth is underwater! with out going underwater you can only see 25% of what there is to see there"

You had good example for the I do not know if I will like it with the discover scuba.

The hard question is the who you would try to convey this to... In general I would say adventure speakers or outdoor people. Partnering up with other outdoor events maybe there is a local sporting goods store that does kayak lessons a camping or hiking group you can cross promote to.

But what is the relevance of the golf cost comparison?

PS - I wasn't intending to offer actual objections/answers... merely pointing out that there are myriad examples of objections that come disguised as "cost" that really aren't cost objections.

 

[Wookie]

Why? Have you ever actually had a prospective diver tell you they were "shopping for a new hobby and are trying to decide whether they should take up golf or scuba diving"? Or are you trying to convince people who have decided to take up golf to take up diving instead? Perhaps you're trying to get golfers to give up golf and replace it with scuba?



Who would you try to convey this to... and toward what end?

Golfers? If they've already laid out money for golf gear/lessons and greens fees going forward, and ostensibly have some level of "commitment" to golf... will they have time, money, inclination to dive? How high is the risk that your "costs about the same" story actually conveys that scuba is expensive? Pretty good, I suspect... since both actually ARE expensive? (Additionally, for the highly affluent golfer... the cost of scuba training/gear is probably not an issue anyway.)

Non-Golfers? There would seem to be little. if any, value in comparing the cost of scuba to the cost of an activity that is either completely irrelevant... or has been specifically rejected.

Potential-Golfers? I will posit that the number of people whose thought process is "I will take up scuba or golf... whichever is cheaper" or "I'd love to take up scuba diving, but I'm going to take up golf instead because it's cheaper than diving" is pretty close to zero.

I think the risk of communicating "scuba is expensive" is pretty high with this argument. Particularly since golf is already seen as being an elite/luxury/affluent pursuit.

More often than not, a cost objection (to anything, not scuba specifically) raised by a potential customer is actually an indication that they simply don't see the value of buying the product/service in general (ie at ANY price)... or the value is seen as being lower than that of a competing product/service that is ALSO being considered. Because of this, a "cost rationalization" argument rarely works because it does not address whatever their underlying objection actually is. The more potent response is to...

1. Uncover the actual objection ("Scuba is expensive for something I won't be able to do that often." or "...for something I don't know if I'll like." or "...for something that seems dangerous."
2. Overcome the actual objection ("There are more opportunities to dive than just on vacation... cert is good forever so value is over a lifetime." or "We can do a discover Scuba program first so you can see how much fun it is..." etc.
3. Provide additional information to increase the perceived VALUE of the product/service. ("Meet new people, go to new places, see new things" etc)

The only time a price comparison message really resonates is when the customer is in active buying mode, have narrowed their consideration set, and are trying to decide between products that they perceive to be of relatively equal quality and value... and are specifically looking to price as a means of discriminating between the two. For example, if someone believes that a 3-Series BMW and an A4 Class Audi are fairly comparable vehicles... they might be swayed to the Audi by a significant price differential. Similarly, if someone really wants a BMW but erroneously believes that the Audi is cheaper... pointing out price parity could sway them to the BMW.

However - absent specific information that the Audi is also in the active consideration set - it makes no sense for a BMW sales person to use "costs no more than an Audi" as part of the selling message.

If they can afford golf, they can afford scuba also, as well as skiing and have a boat.

I have friends who own a dive shop in Houston. They do their pool work at the Houston Country Club. Initiation fees are over $100k. Typical for clubs in most large cities. Guess where most of their clients also come from? Guess the age of most of their clients? Yes, many take their leased jets to Cozumel and stay in a rented home when the shop goes, but many also fly coach or first class and stay in the resort. They run 2 trips a year on the Odyssey. No problem filling 16 at $6k a pop. They go to Bikini. They sell 4 rebreathers a month. Not as many as Add Helium, but still respectable. They come with me. They go to Fiji. Their clients like the Arenui.

Country clubs are bursting with new initiates. Most dive shops are in strip malls. Go figure.

 

[Octopusprime]

But what is this the relevance of the golf cost comparison?

PS - I wasn't intending to offer actual objections/answers... merely pointing out that there are myriad examples of objections that come disguised as "cost" that really aren't cost objections.

There are 2 parts to the golf compairison, dive shops are not competing with each other and scuba is competing for disposable income.

let's take disposable income first... How does anyone take up a new hobby or sport? Usually they either know someone that does it and wants to try or they saw it on tv and start investigating. Emagine this "Joe" sees his buddy John and says ..."Man you got some sun what did you do this weekend?" And John says "I was scuba diving all weekend it was awsome..." The stories continue.... Joe says "that sounds cool is it dangerous?" John says "No, not if your smart if your follow the rules it is safer than driving to work". Joe says, "isn't it expensive? Training, equipment, travle... But it sounds fun" ....

This is is where the proof is that shops do not compete with each other! Discussion continues... John replies, "it is no more expensive than starting in any other hobby. You can try it out and see if you like it and go from there." Joe, "really?" John, "yea the dive shop I go to does a discover scuba every Sunday for $X you can try it in a pool and see what you think."

New potential divers always start with their friends instructor or shop, they see their friends as knolageable and trust them. Divers only change shops out of convience or if they had a bad experiance.

Scuba is like most sports getting started is expensive. Lessons and equipment. Like golf you can spend $1000 on a decent set of clubs with out going crazy. Add a lesson or two and you have OW cert. but once you have your own gear $7 for a fill and $20 for an entry fee or $100 for a charter! People travle all over the world for golf too.

Take another sport like skydiving... It is about $300 a day until you certify to solo and have your own gear then it is about $10 a flight. How about mountain biking. A low end competitive man bile starts at $800-1100 and you can easily spend $2000+ if you want. The point is they have to have disposable income and be exposed to the sport. People are exposed to other sports WAY more than scuba. You see Xgames, golf tournaments on TV etc...

How did you get started diving?

---------- Post added January 1st, 2015 at 04:06 PM ----------

The country club is a great partnership... I may just have to explore that one...there are 3 CC in the area.