What does certification REALLY mean?

[SCUBASailor]

This phenomenon is not restricted to diving. I have taken classes taught by PHDs who had problems telling time. On the other hand, I've taken classes from people with lower degrees who've dazzled me with knowledge and teaching skill. Degrees and certs are very imperfect ways of measuring competence, but, so far, that's what we have to go by.

 

[Thalassamania]

It never ceases to amaze me how people of little accomplishment, either professional or academic create these self-serving bizarre cartoon caricatures out of their wishful ids to pretend that those who have (often all) professional, academic and business accomplishments are some breed of pointy headed nerds lacking anything but the most esoteric and useless hothouse breed information. That's so far from the truth and laughable that it only serves to show first their ignorance of what "academics" really do and second their inability to frame a coherent and cogent argument.

 

[RandyKowalski]

Professor, you nailed it. You precisely defined who you are a "pointy headed nerd lacking anything but the most esoteric and useless hothouse breed information." Read your bio. What does it mean, how does it help improve or GROW the SCUBA Industry? It doesn't. All it does GROW is your EGO and that means NOTHING!!! You need to get over yourself!! Try starting a business, giving someone a job. Help the SCUBA Industry Grow with out more governmental intervention. Thats a REAL accomplishment. Your post also defines how Pompous you really are. You accuse me of "little accomplishment, either professional or academic" and you don't know anything about me. I disagree with you so I must be of "little accomplishment, either professional or academic". I have seen you do this on several posts and I have come to the conclusion that you are clearly an educated man...... but you are not very smart. Educated Idiot is what comes to mind. Also the only one experiencing the "inability to frame a coherent and cogent argument" is YOU. The argument... SCUBA Diving Academic Elite vs SCUBA Diving Entrepreneur. WHO is responsible for its past and continued growth/success? Like I said.... Never took a risk, never had to MAKE a payroll.... Professor get off your high horse!!!!

Randy

"we are limited only by our imaginations and our willingness to make them a reality"

 

[Mike Boswell]

...I know plenty of people who get all kinds of certifications in quite a brief time period, like during a vactaion to some lovely warm place, and would like to ask: if somebody hasnt had much practical experience, diving in various kinds of water, different conditions, etc. , what does it matter how "qualified" he is on paper? As I continue my diving eduction I want the skill levels that I earn to mean something, to others as well as to myself.
I'd be grateful to hear some opinions on this!

All serious students of diving want our skill levels to "mean something". As in every area of education, what it means depends on how good a student you are, how good an instructor you have, and how much you practice what you have learned. Have you worked hard and done your best? Are you moving forward and learning new things? In the final analysis, only you can answer that question.

I have noticed that the best people in any field are those who spend their time and energies on learning and self-improvement. That is what I try to focus on.

 

[TSandM]

Certification means you took a class.

I have about 900 dives now, in a wide variety of environments including cave and staged decompression. But I'm not a divemaster. When I took open water, one of the DMs was a very nice young woman who had been diving less than a year, and as I recall had about 80 dives. But she WAS a divemaster. What that meant was that she had been tutored in a specific body of knowledge and set of skills pertinent to what she was doing -- but it was not a comparison of us as divers.

Anyone who thinks that, at 14 dives and AOW, he ought to lead the dive because he's more "advanced" than the person who's been diving several years, in a variety of environments, and over 100 or more dives, has either been sold a bill of goods by his AOW instructor, or has an ego problem, in my opinion.

There is no question that good training and good mentoring are available to divers, if they are sufficiently curious and motivated to seek it out. What the endless argument here is about is whether the general world of diving would be different (and if so, how), if it were not necessary to SEEK that kind of information.

 

[Thalassamania]

Professor, you nailed it. You precisely defined who you are a "pointy headed nerd lacking anything but the most esoteric and useless hothouse breed information." Read your bio. What does it mean, how does it help improve or GROW the SCUBA Industry? It doesn't. All it does GROW is your EGO and that means NOTHING!!! You need to get over yourself!! Try starting a business, giving someone a job. Help the SCUBA Industry Grow with out more governmental intervention. Thats a REAL accomplishment. Your post also defines how Pompous you really are. You accuse me of "little accomplishment, either professional or academic" and you don't know anything about me. I disagree with you so I must be of "little accomplishment, either professional or academic". I have seen you do this on several posts and I have come to the conclusion that you are clearly an educated man...... but you are not very smart. Educated Idiot is what comes to mind. Also the only one experiencing the "inability to frame a coherent and cogent argument" is YOU. The argument... SCUBA Diving Academic Elite vs SCUBA Diving Entrepreneur. WHO is responsible for its past and continued growth/success? Like I said.... Never took a risk, never had to MAKE a payroll.... Professor get off your high horse!!!!

Randy

"we are limited only by our imaginations and our willingness to make them a reality"

Just to be clear, a concept that you seem to have trouble with: The growth of the scuba industry is not my direct concern, though I am intimately enough associated with the scuba industry to be interested in its healthy growth and to be sufficiently informed to remark upon what I see to be successes and failures, but it is not my "home base."

As far as the only things that you seem to think define "real accomplishments":

1. I founded and have operated a profitable consulting company for over three decades, we have never missed a payroll, we have never had a quarter with a loss. You seem to think that is some big deal ... as far as I'm concerned, that is so simple and so natural that I don't even think it worth mentioning, I get far more satisfaction from the accolades of my betters than I do from just the loyalty of my clients. If that's all just ego, so be it ... after all, all that a successful business requires is the smarts to offer a product of high enough quality that is in high enough demand, that ain't rocket science, that ain't oceanographic science, that ain't even zoology.
2. I helped the diving industry to grow by revisng NAUI's standards for them, top to bottom, at their request.
3. With respect to working against governmental regulation of diving, I was one of a handful of people who dedicated a decade of our lives to a successful battle against OSHA to get the Scientific Diving Community out from under rather onerous governmental regulations.

So, by your own identified criteria, I've accomplished a few thing, even if my contribution to those other areas that you do not wish to recognize as accomplishments are superficially described in my profile.

So ... let's turn to you for a moment. Let's assume that we've both succeeded on the run the business front. Then ... since I have described those things that I have done, that you describe as accomplishments, and since you insist on applying to yourself my general description of "anti-intellectuals of little accomplishment" and take issue with that description, it is only fair to permit you the opportunity to enlighten all of us concerning just exactly what it is that you have done. What work have you done in opposition to governmental regulation of diving? Just what you have done to make diving better that went beyond your personal profit? Just how many diving publications does your C.V. list? Just what honors and awards have you received? Just what groups have you been invited to address? Just what societies and organizations have you been elected to membership in?

 

[OceanEd]

I really seem to have stepped into the fire when I opened this thread. I went back to the beginning to find the original premise and have read the last several pages. I would like to add a little input from my time in diving.

I know people with very few credentials who are trememdously experienced divers and are a great benefit to the sport and I know people with a world of credentials who also have the experience to back them up and are benefitting the sport every day. On the flip side I know people with and without credentials who are not positive representatives of our sport in any way.

Over the years I have come to judge people by their actions more than their credentials because the person defines the knowledge they acquired from the training and not he other way around.

Some of us have chosen not only to be (in my case hopefully) good divers, but also people who have been fascinated by pursuing a continuing education of courses and credentials and jobs in the diving world. I almost think it takes a certain midset to follow this path. I don't consider that it makes me a better diver, but perhaps a more informed diver in some areas and I feel I earned those credentials. A part of my make-up feels that I constantly want to translate the knowledge I have gained from all that learning into simple concepts and give it back to those who don't have as much experience as I do.

I do feel that by taking additional courses all divers gain additional knowledge that they can apply to becoming better divers when that knowledge is combined with additonal training. Rescue Diver is a perfect example. You will or at least should learn skills and knowledge in this course that you will not learn anywhere else in your diving life and it is important information when you combine it will good diving ability.

So I encourage people to take additional training whenever they can do so. I also encourage them to do as much diving as they can on an ongoing basis. Then combine the two. Remember, you are much better off in my opinion by continuing to learn and dive instead of just diving and staying on the same level.

 

[Papa_Bear]

OceanEd I couldn't agree more with your post, but I would say if you take a course that provides you with more dive time it is worth more than the some of the parts! Because diving makes better divers, and when you "Zone" or get that "Zen" feeling you have achieved what no card can give you! There is no better felling to me for this activity than having your trim, balance, buoyancy, air consumption, and finding cool stuff to photograph so right on you feel like your a part of the ocean your in! That way when your 9" from a 14ft Tiger Shark and everything comes together you don't miss any of the action! Education will help keep you safe, but nothing takes the place of practice as it makes PERFECT!

 

[OceanEd]

Papa:

We do agree. Even to the point that I offer several FREE Advanced Open Water courses each year. I know there are long term divers out there who don't realize that they are not weighted properly or don't know how to shoot a safety sausage to the surface from 60 ft. on a reel, or don't have good buoyancy control, etc. I feel like you do that if I can get them with me for 5 dives where we are intensely learning together, then those 5 dives are worth a lot more to them than just 5 dives with friends.

When people ask me what is the first step to becoming a good U/W Photographer I tell them you can't get good shots unless you, yourself, are a stable platform.

 

[DiveMonkeyEZ]

Wow, I really must be a lucky diver. I've never had an instructor for any course that wasn't a good diver. All of the instructors I worked with were good people, very capable divers, and I had confidence in their experience and education that they could pass on to me in theory and practice. But as mentioned above, I can read, see, and do in the academic setting, but it really accounts for little unless it's used in real life situations.
My instructors encouraged me to go on to AOW and MD, but not right awaqy. They said to get some diving in, then come back. And that's what I did. So I do agree that in part it's about business and marketing on PADI's part (Or whoever you're diving with), but I have made use of what they taught me in the deep blue. I was able to manage unexpected situations when they came up, including a fairly serious medical emergency. I didn't learn any of that on my own, from "dive buddies" or any of that. I was taught how to handle these things through advenced training. granted, I could have just rushed through and parroted back information for the tests in order to get more cards, but that's not what I was after. I wanted to add to my skills and learn emergency management, as well as get more perspective and experience that comes with the courses after OW. Rescue, in my opinion, was the most useful and important course, but all were of value. Who didn't feel a little better about deep diving after taking that course, or navigation after taking that course...
It's all what you make of it, but it can be very useful. And for this diver, it's not a contest of manhood. I will take any opportunity to learn from experienced divers. There are endless scenarios one can run into down there. No one is a master of all there is to know in any such complex sport. So I'm not mad at the certifying agencies for creating a framework that might be exploited by those seeking ego-cards. I just hope that divers who take those courses use the information to be a better diver and maybe be of use to another diver someday when s*it happens. Because it does happen from time to time...