What do you consider new?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmm... quite a few instructors in that category

Yes, there are quite a few instructors out there who are new divers. I've met some of them. The bar for becoming a scuba instructor is embarrassingly low, and there are an awful lot of people who go from being an OW student to being an instructor in six months or less ... barely adequate time to get comfortable with the gear, much less understanding the basics of what they supposedly "learned" enough to teach it to someone else. You can spot them immediately underwater ... vertical, constant finning, waving their hands around, kicking the crap out of everything ... and unable to take a compass heading or read their slate without first kneeling on the bottom.

To answer the OP's question, to my concern, a new diver is one who hasn't yet figured out basic buoyancy control, doesn't dive in trim, uses poor technique when it comes to things like keeping their hands quiet or using fin kicks in a way that doesn't disturb the bottom. A new diver may comprehend the importance of diving with a buddy, but probably hasn't yet figured out how to do it without either stressing their buddy out or losing them altogether (basic awareness technique). They may struggle with their gear, or show up with gear that's completely inappropriate to the type of diving they're trying to do, which only exacerbates the problems they're having with their basic skills.

It has less to do with the number of dives you have, or the number of c-cards you've earned, than it does the manner in which you use the skills you supposedly learned in OW class, and a fundamental understanding of why those skills matter.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RyanT]

Crawl, walk, run. Focus on learning, new skills, equipment, and about yourself. You will know when you are no longer a new or novice diver.

Exactly!

The only reason that a classification like "novice diver" matters is it means that some dives are beyond your skill set. Take your time. Develop your skills to be competent and safe for the kinds of dives you want to do and enjoy!

 

[chrisch]

Yes, there are quite a few instructors out there who are new divers. I've met some of them. The bar for becoming a scuba instructor is embarrassingly low, and there are an awful lot of people who go from being an OW student to being an instructor in six months or less ... barely adequate time to get comfortable with the gear, much less understanding the basics of what they supposedly "learned" enough to teach it to someone else. You can spot them immediately underwater ... vertical, constant finning, waving their hands around, kicking the crap out of everything ... and unable to take a compass heading or read their slate without first kneeling on the bottom....

I think, if I try very hard to be fair, getting the core skills like mask clearing and so on at a level where a person can join a guided dive group and make shallow warm water dives is not such a big task. I also think - to be fair - teaching skills and diving skills are different and a good educator doesn't need to be a superhuman in his/her chosen field.

The big issue where I have to agree with you and find fault with the zero-to-hero instructors (and a few older ones that should know better) is the really bad overweighting. Overweighting appears to be a sort of industry standard to overcome all sorts of shortfalls. That's why people are vertical and constantly finning, kicking the crap out the vis. For that sin we really must look to the Staff Instructors that don't spend a little time with the IFC students getting the weighting right and getting the buoyancy totally correct. This bad habit then gets passed on and round the thing goes.

There are all sorts of excuses,not least that it is quicker to slap on another lead rather than get the student to breathe out properly. Much quicker, I am sure to overweight than spend time with the odd student that has problems. Much easier to control a group of students kneeling on the bottom than hovering a little above the silt. On the boat the divemaster adds a bit of extra weight to ensure all the group get submerged and the tour gets underway quickly. So it goes on. Perhaps Peak Performance Buoyancy should be in the AOW

 

[stuartv]

How do you decide if a diver is a new diver?
Amount of time certified? Number of dives? Highest certification?

I've been diving almost 2 years. A little over 100 dives. Recently tech certified. The more I dive, the more "new" I feel. Every time I dive with someone new to me, I tell them "I am still a fairly new diver, so don't assume that I know what I'm doing. If you see me doing something that looks wrong, don't hesitate to say something!"

My own opinion of my skills gets lower and lower as I get more experience. I recognize that I am a better diver now than I was a year ago. But I also have an even better understanding, now, of how much room there is for improvement.

So, don't sweat labels. Don't let anyone (including yourself) egg you into doing anything you're not comfortable with. Have fun!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Chronic overweighting is the consequence of training new divers while on their knees. A properly weighted diver isn't going to be kneeling as easily as one who's carrying extra pounds of lead ... and since most OW students spend more time kneeling than they do finning in the water column, their instructors weight them accordingly.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bob DBF]

Well I figure new either just started, or is newer at it than I, which is the majority of divers.

What is important is how good a diver they are, which is a function of how well they dive, not necessarily the years they have been diving, or dive count. Like any endeavor, there are some folks that are naturals and take to diving like they were born to it, It is a thrill to dive with one.

When looking for a dive buddy I'm less interested in how new they are, or even how good a diver they are, than whether or not they are a dick.


Bob

 

[Silver $crambler]

I'm a new diver.
Still learning the basics.
One Caribbean dive in Roatan, a few dives in Lake Travis.
Every dive is a learning dive where seeing the sights is secondary to practicing skills.
Even the Caribbean dive was a learning dive where buoyancy control was the focus for me.

I plan my dive, and then stay well within my depth and skill set.
I will consider my self "not new" when my skills and training have reached a point to be useful to the new "new divers".

 

[beester]

Yes, there are quite a few instructors out there who are new divers. I've met some of them. The bar for becoming a scuba instructor is embarrassingly low, and there are an awful lot of people who go from being an OW student to being an instructor in six months or less ... barely adequate time to get comfortable with the gear, much less understanding the basics of what they supposedly "learned" enough to teach it to someone else. You can spot them immediately underwater ... vertical, constant finning, waving their hands around, kicking the crap out of everything ... and unable to take a compass heading or read their slate without first kneeling on the bottom.

To answer the OP's question, to my concern, a new diver is one who hasn't yet figured out basic buoyancy control, doesn't dive in trim, uses poor technique when it comes to things like keeping their hands quiet or using fin kicks in a way that doesn't disturb the bottom. A new diver may comprehend the importance of diving with a buddy, but probably hasn't yet figured out how to do it without either stressing their buddy out or losing them altogether (basic awareness technique). They may struggle with their gear, or show up with gear that's completely inappropriate to the type of diving they're trying to do, which only exacerbates the problems they're having with their basic skills.

It has less to do with the number of dives you have, or the number of c-cards you've earned, than it does the manner in which you use the skills you supposedly learned in OW class, and a fundamental understanding of why those skills matter.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So basically a new diver is any diver who hasn't done fundies. (yes I'm a troll)...

 

[DiverDownD3]

I've been diving almost 2 years. A little over 100 dives. Recently tech certified. The more I dive, the more "new" I feel. Every time I dive with someone new to me, I tell them "I am still a fairly new diver, so don't assume that I know what I'm doing. If you see me doing something that looks wrong, don't hesitate to say something!"

My own opinion of my skills gets lower and lower as I get more experience. I recognize that I am a better diver now than I was a year ago. But I also have an even better understanding, now, of how much room there is for improvement.

So, don't sweat labels. Don't let anyone (including yourself) egg you into doing anything you're not comfortable with. Have fun!

This is my opinion as well. I just passed my year "anniversary" last week. I got 30 dives in, not nearly as much as I hope for, but I've been diving more in the last several month. I've learned a lot in the last year and like you said while I'm a better diver than I was at dive 1, but I recognize I still have a long way to go and a lot more to learn.

To put it another way, I consider myself new and will for the foreseeable future

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So basically a new diver is any diver who hasn't done fundies. (yes I'm a troll)...

... you don't need fundies to develop good basic skills ... you do, however, need decent instruction and a reasonable example of what those skills should look like ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)