What causes regulator freeze-up?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

engdiver

Contributor
Messages
185
Reaction score
0
Location
Defiance, Ohio
# of dives
200 - 499
I have never understood why some regulators are prone to freeze-up. When in cold water what conditions cause a regulator to freeze up? Is this always a free flow condition? Does it happen on the first and/or second stage?
I use an older regulator (Sherwood Magnum 2) that I have heard is a good regulator but it is not sealed in the first stage. Is this a potential problem with freeze-up in water below 40 degrees F?
 
It's all because of Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac (1809). He figured out that the ratio of pressure and temperature of a gas is constant. For example, if the pressure of a tank is 3000psi and the temp is 40, the constant is 3000/40=75. If your reg freeflows and the pressure drops to 2800 PSI the temperature will be 2800/75 (the constant) = 37. So if you're close to freezing and your reg already has been chilled a bit because you've been breathing a sudden pressure drop (for example breathing in and inflating your BC at the same time) can cause the temp to drop to below freezing. if there is a bit of moisture in your reg it can freeze open, freeflow and really freeze up.
Bad Mr. Gay-Lussac :-(
 
Sorry, the year he expressed this law was 1802, not 1809.
 
Damn W.E.D., you're that old & can remember that far back???...You've really got a got memory, IMO......lol........
 
To put it in simple terms, when the air in your tank expands, the molecules have to speed up to occupy a larger volume (even though the air is now under less pressure). The air has to take on energy in the form of heat for this to occur and it draws the heat from the valve and first stage through which it passes as it expands.

So the metal parts of the first stage get cold and unless they can in turn transfer enough heat from the surrounding water, their temperature will fall below freezing and the water surroudning them will begin to freeze on those parts.

If the ice accumulates in an area, like the inside of the ambient chamber, where the ice blocks the movement of the piston or diaphragm, then the regulator will get stuck in an open position and a freeze-flow will result. This occurs as the pressure increases inside the first stage even after you stop drawing air through the second stage and this excess pressure vents itslef through the second stage whihc is designed with a downstream bias in the poppet assembly to allow this to happen. It's a good thing as it prevents the low pressure hoses from exploding.

This large amount of exanding air then really cools the first stage and the ice forming on it acts as an insulator further reducing transfer and pretty much ensures the reg will freeflow until the tank valve is turned off.

In the past, when all metal second stages were common, a second stage freezing up was all virtually unheard of. However when plastic second stage cases were intorduced, and even more so when plastic air barrels became common, the heat transfer ability of the second stage was greatly reduced and the slight cooling of the air dropping approximately 140 psi from the intermediate pressure to ambient pressure proved to be enough to cause ice to form inside many second stages.

What normally happens is that the ice forms on the lever or the poppet assembly and prevents the valve from closing once you are done exhaling. The frozen second stage will then often cause the first stage to freeze up as well.

A sealed ambient chamber helps to prevent a freeze up as does a metal second stage or a second stage with a metal air barrel. Pulling back hose covers to fully expose metal fittings on the first and second stages aides heat transfer and makes the reg more resitant to freezing up. The diver can also help reduce the cooling that occurs by not testing the reg or filling the BC with the power inflator and generally trying when ever possible not to flow any air through the reg until the first and second stages are fully sumberged as water is about 80 times more efficient at heat transfer than air. Check the reg for proper function at home well before the dive (giving it ample time to re-warm prior to the dive and inflate the BC at home and/or wait until you are in the water to inflate it or a dry suit.

During the dive, take care not to inhale and inflate something at the same time or in rapid succession. Also, don't drop to the bottom severely negative and then fill the BC or drysuit with a long blast on the inflator. Several smaller hits on the inflator over a longer period of time gives the reg more time to recover the heat it loses.

Low pressure tanks also help reduce the cooling load on the first stage compared to high pressure tanks. That said, many freeflows occur in the middle or toward the end of the dive due to a slow buildup of ice on or in the regulator so don't get sloppy just because the tank pressure is low later in the dive.

Generally speaking regulator freeze ups do not occur in water warmer than 50 degrees F, and they are much more common at temps below 40 degrees F where the temperature of the water is closer to freezing and there is less potential heat transfer that can occur between the regulator and the water it is in contact with.
 
Well, simply speaking, when a gas flows rapidly over an object the ambient pressure is reduced. When pressure is reduced the relative temperature goes down.

So if you have a gas passing very quickly over a surface, then the surface temperature of that object goes down very quickly.

So forth and so on . . .

Kind of like when you go out in the cold and the wind is blowing . . . it's sort of like a "chill factor".

the K
 
The Kraken:
Well, simply speaking, when a gas flows rapidly over an object the ambient pressure is reduced. When pressure is reduced the relative temperature goes down.

So if you have a gas passing very quickly over a surface, then the surface temperature of that object goes down very quickly.

So forth and so on . . .

Kind of like when you go out in the cold and the wind is blowing . . . it's sort of like a "chill factor".

the K
Well..sort of. Whether the pressure of a gas drops as it flows over an object depends of the shape of the object and whether the flow is supersonic or subsonic.

Plus, in this situation, there is a lot more happening than just fluid dynamics, the pressure of the gas itself is dropping significantly and it would still need to draw heat energy from somewhere even if it flowed nowhere.

And if you look at it differently, when you first pressurize your reg, the high pressure areas inside the first stage go from approx 15 psi to 3000 psi in an extremely short period of time and the gas initially in the regulator quickly becomes compressed and has to release all the excess energy that is no longer needed to keep the gas molecules happily speeding around filling the available volume. That excess energy is released as heat. Spin the valves open fast enough on your 02 deco reg and you will potentially supply enough heat for ignition if you have fuel available in the regulator.
 
Thanks for all the input. The physics behind this is what I was looking for.
 

Back
Top Bottom