What are your thought on releasing accident information?

[kensuf]

What level of experience did they have vs what you think was needed for that dive? What were they missing in terms of what they needed to safely do that sort of dive?

I had an interesting conversation with the guy who originally explored that section of the cave. He told me that he took a very well known, highly experienced, deep cave explorer back there shortly after finding it. That highly experienced explorer got stuck in the same manner that was the likely precipitating event that led to the chain reaction which took those two guys out. The original explorer told me that during the problem, he thought to himself "****, I just took out so and so".

I don't know first hand how much experience those two guys had in Eagles Nest, but I know how much experience I have in that cave (not much, but at least 50 dives, including several in the 6-7 hour range and dozens of dives to the end of the upstream/downstream lines and a few dives to the Abyss room) and I still haven't gone back where they were trying to go.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I know how much experience I have in that cave (not much, but at least 50 dives, including several in the 6-7 hour range and dozens of dives to the end of the upstream/downstream lines and a few dives to the Abyss room) and I still haven't gone back where they were trying to go.

I probably have done 150 dives in there, a few in the 6-7 hour range, and I have not gone back there either & I have no plans to.

 

[Sam Miller III]

What are your thought on releasing accident information?

That is the question....
Many moons ago LA county had a very effective 4 point dive accident reporting system
1) Cerifified UW LA instructor analyzed the event was and a report was submitted
2) LA County life guard analyzed the event was and a report was report was submitted
3) The equipment was tested and analyzed by a acknowledge equipment expert and a report was submitted
(Al Thompson of Professional SCUBA repair, later Glen Egstrom of UCLA)
4) The victims body was autopsied by the LA County Coroner
(Dr. Tom Naguchi aka " Coroner to the stars" )

A combined report was created, combining the instructor, life guard equipment and coroner,

It was made public record and published in the LA Co UW news

All went well until litigation claiming "post mortem defamation of character" and a few other claims was instigated

So "What are your thought on releasing accident information? "

It is needed !

As the great anatomist once said so may centuries ago "We learn from the dead."

And we can--- only no names and have air tight legal protection when the information is released

Sam Miller,III
LA Co, NAUI PADI Etc Underwater aka SCUBA instructor

 

[boulderjohn]

The eagles nest goofball took a damn child into the cave for starters, avoided training and of course his equally ignorant family is up in arms.

I just want to make sure all readers understand that two completely different double fatalities at Eagles Nest have been discussed in this thread, and they should not be confused.

1. A father and son with nothing remotely close to even the most basic training should not have been anywhere in that system. Anything they would have done that day was beyond their training and ability, and they did a dive that was beyond the capacity of their gear, likely because their minimal training was not sufficient for them to know that.
2. Two highly trained and experienced divers attempted a dive to an extremely dangerous part of the cave that was arguably beyond their ability.

 

[KevinNM]

I cannot quantify it.

My knowledge of what happened is all based on what I read, not from any personal experience with those divers.

My thoughts are based only on an intuition, and I base this on having many years experience diving and cave diving.

When I look at the dive, the plan, the goals of that dive and the experience level of the divers the hairs on my neck stand up.

Opinions will vary and I cannot defend my intuition in any definitive way.

You’ve got ridiculously more experience than I have, so I’ll buy that. Thanks.