What are the true advantages of steel tanks?

[MSP Rescue Diver]

If it's only the weight off your belt you're looking to shed, you can get neutrally buoyant AL80's. Just like steel tanks, it moves the weight off your waist and and onto your back.

The additional air you get in a larger volume steel tank may be a benefit. Are you finding you're running out of air before you're usually running out of NDL?

Keeping tanks for 30 versus 15 years? I sincerely hope that there'll be something better out there before my tanks wear out. If nothing else I'll want new tanks that aren't all beat up looking after 15 years.

Cost wise, you can get AL80's at Divers Direct for $129, and $20 more for the AL80S's.

Some thoughts...

Marc

 

[fgray1]

There's a great deal of diferance between AL and Steel tanks.
I have a HP 80 3500 PSI its 6 in. shorter and weighs 4lbs less. And is neg bouyant at the end of the dive.
Go to this and it gives you all the specs for both steel and al tanks. Hope it helps. When you get there select tanks from the menu on the left hand side. www.cavediver.net/archives/index.html
Fred

 

[reubencahn]

For some time I've been considering switching out of my AL80s and purchasing HP100's for me and HP80's for my wife (the scbababe is no giant )

I like the idea of the tanks' negative buoyancy when empty and the idea of about 4 lbs less lead. I also like the idea of the tanks being a bit smaller, which makes them easier to carry on your back and stow in your car and at home. However, the other day I was at a local LDS (of the many in the Fort Lauderdale area), and while chatting with the instructor, a flip side to the steel tanks was pointed out, so I seeking some advise from my SB buddies.

This instructor pointed out that other than the size of the tank, there is not much advantage for a rec diver to dive steel. He mentioned that the idea of shedding weight is a myth because the weight is not being shed, it's being shifted (you're now carrying it on your back as opposed to your waist and steel tanks are heavier); steel corrodes quicker than aluminum; HP tanks require Din regs, which he views as an unnecessary expense if you're going to remain within rec limits; the price of steel tanks is also something that he considers unnecessary.

I don't have a problem diving with AL80's, as I just add 2 - 4 lbs to compensate for their positive buoyancy when empty, and their size does not bother me. Now, short of size being an obvious advantage, especially for my better half, what are other advantages of steel over aluminum that I may be overlooking?

Thanks

Rick

Well, I would disagree with almost everything this guy said. The tanks are no heavier. They do allow you to take weight off your belt. The PST E series do not require DIN regs. They don't corrode if properly cared for. They will last longer than AL tanks. The cost for the HP80 at FillExpress in Pompano is the same as that of an AL80, $169.

The steel tanks do have downsides but not the ones he mentioned. In my view, there are two real disadvantages of steel tanks and they are the flip side of the advantages. First, diving with an E7-100 and a 3mm wetsuit, I use no ditchable weight. This can be good or bad depending on your view. Second, because the tank is shorter than the AL and more negatively buoyant, it tends to be head heavy. This can improve or hurt trim depending on the individual. (This is even more true of the 80.)

 

[IndigoBlue]

Oh i think also the nay saying of this local instructor might have been to get you to buy AL tanks as they usually have more of those in stock than the steel tanks.

Exactly right.

By the time divers have made it to the instructor level they have either become expert divers or expert liars.

Aluminum has no advantages.

In the short term, alum costs less. But the tanks burn out faster too, so the long term cost is higher. Therefore the stores depend on uninformed customers to buy their used alums so that the stores can re-gear every couple of years with new alum tanks.

A nice pair of steel 72s would last you and your wife decades.

I am not sure why you would want to haul around a heavy 100 on your back?

 

[simbrooks]

Unfortunately it is sometimes hard to see the lies, particularly if you are new to the sport or buying this type of equipment for the first time....

As for 100's or so, longer bottom times, more gas for safety and of course if i double up 100/120's i get even more again - but probably only for tech stuff. The PST 100's are only 2# heavier than an AL80, no problem there. If your air consumption is also good enough for the 72's to my 120's, then great for you!!

AL tanks have their place, as deco bottles, if you get into that either hauled around as stages, or left at a convenient place for later retreival - they are also cheaper to fleet buy for classes. The shop knows the students are going to batter the tanks to death before they get to 15 years old, and dont want to buy more expensive tanks to do similar things to. Of course once you give the students something to learn on, you can always turn around and sell them the same stuff because its the industry norm to get stuff and most people are rec divers anyway - so who cares.

I get my prices and info from a variety of sources, but for easy reference and some of these points check out dive-rite express: http://www.diveriteexpress.com/ on their tanks page.

 

[Boogie711]

I am not sure why you would want to haul around a heavy 100 on your back?

Indigo Bunny - apparently, you didn't realize that an E7-100 is both smaller and LIGHTER than an AL80.

You're welcome.

 

[Scubaguy62]

The cost for the HP80 at FillExpress in Pompano is the same as that of an AL80, $169.

I know Mark and Charlie very well; I get all my fills there, and I've been inquiring with them about the steels, but they've not quoted me that price. Are you sure about this? They have told me their price includes the tank O2 clean, stickers, fill, and a current VIP, which is something Divers Direct doesn't offer (damn there goes my direct rewards points).

The steel tanks do have downsides but not the ones he mentioned. In my view, there are two real disadvantages of steel tanks and they are the flip side of the advantages. First, diving with an E7-100 and a 3mm wetsuit, I use no ditchable weight. This can be good or bad depending on your view. Second, because the tank is shorter than the AL and more negatively buoyant, it tends to be head heavy. This can improve or hurt trim depending on the individual. (This is even more true of the 80.)

The truth is that I can do a beach dive at Lauderdale by the Sea (about 20') on an AL80 and dive about 90 mins and come back with about 700 psi left in the tank. I guess that if I bought one E7-100 I could probably do a deeper two tank dive on one bottle (I've done a two tank 50/40 on one AL80 before). My wife, however, would definitely need the 80s.

About not wearing the ditchable weight, I guess it could be viewed as something bad, but only if you had to ditch your weights. Then again, how often does that happen?

Being the open minded person I am, I didn't want to dismiss this instructor's view points, but I see that my original hunch was right all along, so once I have an extra $700.00, well, an extra $1,200. (I want a Dive Rite canister HID), I'll be popping into Fill Express to give them some more money than the little I give them to top off my AL80's..lol

BTW, www.diveriteexpress.com, is Fill Express.

Thank you guys!!!!

Rick

 

[Warren_L]

About not wearing the ditchable weight, I guess it could be viewed as something bad, but only if you had to ditch your weights. Then again, how often does that happen?

I like to have at least some ditchable weight. I dive with E7-120s which allow me to have less weight on my belt, but I still use a belt where I can dump weight if needed.

It's not so much as how often you require to ditch weight, it's really the fact that you can if you need to. It could be just that one time when you need to do it but can't. All it takes is one time.

 

[reubencahn]

I know Mark and Charlie very well; I get all my fills there, and I've been inquiring with them about the steels, but they've not quoted me that price. Are you sure about this? They have told me their price includes the tank O2 clean, stickers, fill, and a current VIP, which is something Divers Direct doesn't offer (damn there goes my direct rewards points).

About not wearing the ditchable weight, I guess it could be viewed as something bad, but only if you had to ditch your weights. Then again, how often does that happen?

BTW, www.diveriteexpress.com, is Fill Express.

Rick

I'm pretty sure of this. I was picking up my tanks one day. I have 100s my wife and son have the 80s. And Mark mentioned that PST was making a big push on the 80s so that they were able to offer them for the same price as AL80s. I'm nearly positive he said $169. This was probably sometime between August and October. What price are they quoting for the 80s?

I didn't necessarily mean I actually see no ditchable weight as a negative. I'm comfortable that I could swim up a full tank in the event of a wing failure. If I couldn't, I would think it was a problem.

 

[Mo2vation]

...what are other advantages of steel over aluminum that I may be overlooking?

Thanks

Rick

Scuba tanks come in one color: Dull Gray. Unless you're doing a shot for the cover of some Scuba rag. Then you can roll with any jellybean colored AL80 you like.

Galv steel tanks fade to a glorious dull gray.

Also - remember to remove the sticker(s) (like that big, huge round PST sticker) before you dive... as the adhesive will leave a round tattoo (when you are eventually shamed into removing it) and people like me will snicker at you.

K