DIR- Generic What are people using for backup lights now?

[RTodd]

This is why the DIR forum is dead. You get terrible advice here. Push button lights have failure risks that are not necessary to take, particularly for a backup. They will never be DIR. same for over volted bulbs. Yes it makes them brighter but it increases the risk of a failure when you turn it on. A bad decision for a backup light. Both risks are low but completely unnecessary to take.

The battery issue is more nuanced. It is less about testing now. Alkaline batteries are extremely reliable. The Lion stuff has a wider range of quality issues. For your true backups no need to take that small risk.

For dives where you really need the light if the primary fails most carry a second backup primary such as a handheld that does have lithium battery. Would I bother to do that on a dive with a 30 minute swim to exit no. But, for 2 hours on trigger to exit - yes.

If you are asking questions on a forum your diving is probably at a level where two scouts are all you need. Scouts, hesser, etc cost more because they are built like tanks to survive tons of abuse and just work. Highest reliability possible for the needed burn time is the goal of a backup not brightness, size, favorite color or other made up preference.

 

[Jack Hammer]

As I said, for purposes of complying with standards while taking C1 (and soon, C2), I swallowed my technical beliefs and bought some Scouts.

My twist top DRIS and Dive Rite backups cost a lot less than the Scouts (great lights) and both met standards fine for all my GUE courses.

 

[Lorenzoid]

My twist top DRIS and Dive Rite backups cost a lot less than the Scouts (great lights) and both met standards fine for all my GUE courses.

Maybe someone will buy my four Scouts which would finance half a trip to Mexico.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Maybe someone will buy my four Scouts which would finance half a trip to Mexico.

 

[_Ralph]

dated standards not in line with current best practices, i.e. written at a time when it was valid given nimh cells, but no longer appropriate given 18650's especially since we have burn testers that will actually give the exact capacity of the cell which is much more accurate than a voltmeter on alkaline cells.

Now, that all said, to @ginti 's point. The 18650's when on high only burn for 45 minutes, but they produce 6-8x as much light as the scouts do which is much easier when coming out on a scooter. If the light has a "low" setting which most of them do, then they burn for well over 4 hours and produce comparable output to the scouts. I would always rather have a smaller light that has the option of giving me lots of light for the exit that I can knock down if I need it. What I do is run a pair of those type of lights on my harness, and I keep one in my pocket. The one in my pocket has an oxycheq sock on it.
Real scenario, I was diving in Manatee a few months ago and was diving a prototype canister light. The joys of prototypes means they are probably going to fail, which this one happened to do just after the turn and had a 2 hour exit plan. I got off the trigger and partially deployed my left backup light *turned it on and got it out of the harness strap but did not unclip*. I then reached into my pocket, grabbed the backup light and since it had a soft goodman on it *which is not the same cheap glove monstrosities that most of them come with but is actually like a goodman handle* was able to put it on my hand like normal. Turned it on and stowed the strap light and made my way out the exit. Since this is a relatively big cave and we were on the trigger I wanted that light on high so we could make good progress and when it kicked down to low, I just swapped it with my left side light and finished the exit. I much prefer that paradigm than having to physically hold the light for the whole exit, especially one that is significantly less bright and much heavier. Is it truly DIR? obviously not since those lights use rechargeable batteries and have buttons, but at the same time, I think they are infinitely better lights *and yes I do own a pair of Scouts with the LED modules*, and much prefer the 18650 lights to the scouts for actual use.

As of earlier this week on the facebooks....

I don’t disagree, but also don’t agree and use 18650’s myself.. at my day job I go through around $5k in both disposable and NiMh rechargeables... and wouldn’t use either in such a way of leaving them in a device for longer than a week of no use.... too many damaged cells that way.

Lithium’s haven’t given the same grief and repair time that alkaline and NiMh have..



_R

 

[tbone1004]

This is why the DIR forum is dead. You get terrible advice here. Push button lights have failure risks that are not necessary to take, particularly for a backup. They will never be DIR. same for over volted bulbs. Yes it makes them brighter but it increases the risk of a failure when you turn it on. A bad decision for a backup light. Both risks are low but completely unnecessary to take.

The battery issue is more nuanced. It is less about testing now. Alkaline batteries are extremely reliable. The Lion stuff has a wider range of quality issues. For your true backups no need to take that small risk.

For dives where you really need the light if the primary fails most carry a second backup primary such as a handheld that does have lithium battery. Would I bother to do that on a dive with a 30 minute swim to exit no. But, for 2 hours on trigger to exit - yes.

If you are asking questions on a forum your diving is probably at a level where two scouts are all you need. Scouts, hesser, etc cost more because they are built like tanks to survive tons of abuse and just work. Highest reliability possible for the needed burn time is the goal of a backup not brightness, size, favorite color or other made up preference.

what pray tell are the extra failure points on a backup with push buttons? Particularly the ones that use magnetic switches on the back that do not have any thru-hull ports?
Also what over volted *not actually a thing, but we'll go with it* lights are you talking about? With a single 18650 it is not practical to overdrive any of the LED's due to the inefficiency of boost modules and they are typically driven directly with battery voltage. They use the exact same technology as the alkaline batteries in the boards to drive the LED's.
Scouts are not build with any higher quality than any comparable lights, you are paying a blue H tax for them.

@_Ralph that quote you said about the reliability of testing is a bit laughable given the charge testers that are out there that give much more reliable information than a volt meter....

 

[tbone1004]

If you are asking questions on a forum your diving is probably at a level where two scouts are all you need. Scouts, hesser, etc cost more because they are built like tanks to survive tons of abuse and just work. Highest reliability possible for the needed burn time is the goal of a backup not brightness, size, favorite color or other made up preference.

If you want the highest reliability possible then are you still using incandescent bulbs in your backup lights? By your own statement you can't be using LED's for those because they have electronics and are therefor more failure prone than an incandescent bulb...

 

[_Ralph]

@_Ralph that quote you said about the reliability of testing is a bit laughable given the charge testers that are out there that give much more reliable information than a volt meter....

I’m lost, care to fill me in on whatever you say I said that I didn’t?

_R

 

[PfcAJ]

what pray tell are the extra failure points on a backup with push buttons? Particularly the ones that use magnetic switches on the back that do not have any thru-hull ports?
Also what over volted *not actually a thing, but we'll go with it* lights are you talking about? With a single 18650 it is not practical to overdrive any of the LED's due to the inefficiency of boost modules and they are typically driven directly with battery voltage. They use the exact same technology as the alkaline batteries in the boards to drive the LED's.
Scouts are not build with any higher quality than any comparable lights, you are paying a blue H tax for them.

@_Ralph that quote you said about the reliability of testing is a bit laughable given the charge testers that are out there that give much more reliable information than a volt meter....

Dude, switches fail. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. There’s more parts. Moving parts at that. And all of those parts can break.

Switches are also apt to get bumped on. Twist lights don’t do that. Turn them off, press on the bezel to make sure depth pressure won’t turn them on, and go about your life.

A bumped on backup that’s on for hours and not noticed (cough cough the one in your pocket) is not good.

Innovation doesn’t automatically mean it’s better.

The faf you’re describing with testers, chargers, switches, etc is without point. 3 alkaline LED scout style (halcyon, heser, whatever quality piece you’ve got) straight up works. It’s tried and proven.

 

[kensuf]

Another issue with push button lights is they sometimes get easily bumped on, turning on the light. If you're the guy in the rear, and you didn't check your backup lights, your backup batteries may be cashed when you need the light.

This is also another reason I don't like putting backup lights in pockets. It's not as easy to check if they're on or not.